DLGP

Doctor of Leadership in Global Perspectives: Crafting Ministry in an Interconnected World

Holding the Hand of the Devil

Written by: on November 14, 2023

A few weeks ago, my husband, Brad, and I had dinner with a friend who moved out of state during the Pandemic.  Mark sat across the table from us seemingly more at peace than the last time we saw him.  He caught us up on his new job, his wife and three children.  Because I keep in fairly close contact with his wife, I knew he recently converted to Eastern Orthodoxy after leaving a mainline church.  The pictures his wife sent me were filled with gorgeous cathedral-like archways, priests in long robes with extraordinarily large crosses hanging on their chests and bright colored icons in every corner.  What we hadn’t heard yet and eager to know was why he converted–after all, Mark was already a committed Christian who is one of the smartest and most creative guys I know. What more did he want? Or need?

It didn’t take long for Mark to explain how joining the Eastern Orthodox Church changed his daily life. Every Friday night for Vespers he attends confession where he meets with his priest; each Sunday morning he stands for 2-3 hours worshiping through liturgy, genuflecting before icons and kissing paintings. The small congregation then share a prepared meal together after services. Mark’s family have also decided to become members. What Mark believed about God really hadn’t changed.  The question burning inside me finally came out, “Mark, what part of your story am I missing? I’ve not known you to need so much structure around your faith journey.”  

“Pam, have I not told you and Brad about the times I lost complete control of my body and felt paralyzed? After days of testing, the doctors diagnosed me with panic attacks. Since joining the church, I’ve experienced divine moments of peace.”

Suddenly, I saw in my mind’s eyes how belief and story merge.  

When Mark described the darkness/extreme anxiety he experienced the year prior, the reasons became clear as to why our friend converted to Eastern Orthodoxy.   What Mark really discovered was the Magic.  Or, as George Mason University Professor, Dr. Daniel Lieberman defines it, “When something extraordinary happens that’s different from our ordinary state of consciousness.”[1]  In Spellbound written by Lieberman, I learned how our subconscious tells us our stories and that, “Uniting the conscious and the unconscious is the process of individuation. . . “  After our time with Mark and reading this week’s reading, I wondered if religion is a way for us to not completely deny our dark side but also to not completely give into it?  I could not deny Mark’s story of dissatisfaction, darkness and the suffering he experienced on his journey. Like Campbell’s Hero of a Thousand Faces, there was nothing our friend could do except, “Be crucified and resurrected, dismembered totally and then reborn.”[2]

Three Truths I Am Unearthing from our Stories

 Individuation: Integrating and Communicating the Ego with the Unconscious.

The cultural innovation of “identity” began in social psychology.  In 1958 the term “Identity crisis” was introduced to Americans by psychologist Erik Erikson to describe a typical phase in human development.[3]  According to Robert Putnam the new term resonated widely in an America where millions of young people craved independence and sought to craft a personal identity.  The term identity rapidly became an important theme in American culture. In fact, the frequency of the word “identity” in American literature increased more than five-fold over the second half of the twentieth century.[4] What is the connection to identity and our stories?

 Lieberman writes that, “Becoming whole is perhaps the most important thing we do in life.”[5] As I asked my friend specific questions like, “What was your first reaction to having confession every Friday night with your priest?” Mark talked about his experience from a deep place of feeling allowing us to see his genuine spiritual or divine experience.  He told us how often he self corrected when he felt like being mean toward others, knowing his confession was on Friday.

That conversation returned clearly to me when I read in Chapter two: “It’s only the combination of consciousness with unconsciousness that leads to individuality.” In Mark’s identity journey, he faced his instinctual forces without becoming overwhelmed by them.

Numinous:Having Strong Religious or Spiritual Quality – Indicating Divinity.

If I am following Lieberman’s theory, he says that stories, identifying with characters, plays a complex part in us experiencing a fulfilling life. How does this actually happen? It can happen during encounters with the numinous.  What helps me understand numinous is what Jung calls archetypes or the bones of what gives structure to the stories we tell ourselves.[6]  In communications studies, we call this schemata–memories we file away. Perhaps the icons and paintings provide a kind of identification for Eastern Orthodox Christians.  It’s here where I fully believe we can have strong spiritual experiences with either Angels or Demons. Not unlike Bono’s ache when he sings, “I have spoke with the tongue of angels. I have held the hand of the devil.[7]  Like any well researched book, Lieberman quotes a Jungian psychologist who warns that having these kinds of spiritual experiences one can lose touch with reality.[8]

Transcendence: To Go Beyond.

Now we are getting to our purpose. It’s been a few weeks since we sat with our friend at the restaurant; I think about his conversion or his self-differentiation[9] often. Lieberman writes, “The purpose of life is to become your true self.”[10] Again, I wonder if religion is a way for us to not completely deny our dark side but also to not completely give into it? Is this how we become our true self? I think that happened for my friend, Mark.  Might Lieberman’s words about transcendence be likened to Friedman’s universal phenomenon on having the capacity to get out of our emotional climate? I realize it’s much more than that; however, transcendence is risky and it’s rooted in relationship and reality. The journey of becoming our true selves can happen through individuation, numinous and transcendence–it’s inspiration that brings about fundamental change. At the end of the day, our books and readings are all just walking us safely home and Dr. Daniel Lieberman has inspired me to look down to see if I am holding the hand of a devil and to look up to listen if I am speaking with the tongue of an angel.  What about you?


[1] Lieberman, Daniel MD, Spellbound.

[2] Campbell, Joseph.“The Hero With A Thousand Faces: p. 17

[3] Erikson, “Young Man Luther; a Study in Psychoanalysis and History.”

[4] Putnam, Robert. “The Upswing: How America Came Together a Century Ago and How We Can Do It Again:  p. 192 Figure 5.8

[5] Lieberman, Daniel MD, Spellbound. p.96

[6] Lieberman, Daniel MD. Spellbound. p.99.

[7] U2. I Still haven’t Found What I am Looking for.

[8] Hannah, Barbara. “Some Remarks on Active Imagination.” Spring (1953): 38-58.

[9] Friedman, A Failure of Nerve.

[10] Lieberman. p.99

About the Author

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Pam Lau

Pamela Havey Lau brings more than 25 years of experience in speaking, teaching, writing and mediating. She has led a variety of groups, both small and large, in seminars, trainings, conferences and teachings. Pam’s passion is to see each person communicate with their most authentic voice with a transparent faith in Jesus Christ. With more than 10, 000 hours of writing, researching, and teaching the heart and soul of Pam’s calling comes from decades of walking alongside those who have experienced healing through pain and peace through conflict. As a professor and author, Pam deeply understands the role of mentoring and building bridges from one generation to another. She has developed a wisdom in how to connect leaders with their teams. Her skill in facilitating conversations extends across differences in families, businesses, schools, universities, and nonprofits. Pam specializes in simplifying complex issues and as a business owner, has helped numerous CEOs and leaders communicate effectively. She is the author of Soul Strength (Random House) and A Friend in Me (David C. Cook) and is a frequent contributor to online and print publications. You can hear Pam’s podcast on Real Life with Pamela Lau on itunes. Currently, Pam is a mediator for families, churches, and nonprofits. You can contact Pam through her website: PamelaLau.com. Brad and Pam live in Newberg, Oregon; they have three adult daughters and one son-in-law. One small, vocal dog, Cali lives in the family home where she tries to be the boss! As a family they enjoy worshiping God, tennis, good food and spending time with family and friends.

12 responses to “Holding the Hand of the Devil”

  1. mm Russell Chun says:

    Hi Pam,
    What a great story and it really helps me to think about what I am wrestling with about this book.

    You wrote: I realize it’s much more than that; however, transcendence is risky and it’s rooted in relationship and reality. The journey of becoming our true selves can happen through individuation, numinous and transcendence–it’s inspiration that brings about fundamental change”

    Wow, this was a mouthful. I like the part about transcendence rough, it is risky. But worth it.
    I think I come from a different angle. I did not grow up in the church. I accepted Christ at 33 when I thought the darkness would consume me. Moving out of that darkness and finding purpose in the tasks He has set before me, are the moments when I am at my best.

    My goal, “Well done good and faithful servant”…ah…transcendence!

    Shalom…

    • mm Pam Lau says:

      Russell,
      In so many ways, you are a mystery to me and it makes me curious. What was happening in your life when you say you were in a darkness? Do you mean spiritually? I know that seems obvious but I would like to hear more of what life was like for you before you said Yes to Christ. And how is it that you are finding transcendence from the other way around? You have much to offer in your story and experiences.

      • mm Russell Chun says:

        Hi Pam.
        Sorry I almost missed your question.

        Like most people who did not grow up in a Christian household, a fair amount of immoral sin permeates ones youth. Early adulthood, empowered by the salaries of jobs, accelerated trial and error walks into self-satisfaction.

        When one comes to the point, “Is this all there is”…enter Christ. Transformation and a movement towards Him (Transcendence).

        Russ

    • mm Pam Lau says:

      Russell, I also want to say how much I appreciate your candor and honesty in your responses.

  2. mm Kim Sanford says:

    I appreciated how you connected Lieberman to your friend’s personal story. I also liked the insightful question you ask: Again, I wonder if religion is a way for us to not completely deny our dark side but also to not completely give into it? Is this how we become our true self?
    I think that’s actually a helpful way to think about religion in general – a worldview that allows for a narrative where one’s dark side and good side are able to coexist in tension.

    • mm Pam Lau says:

      Kim,
      I often think of the book and play, Les Miserables in the scene where Jean Val Jean is brought back to the priest (the very priest who housed him after he was in prison) because he stole their silver. The police roughly place Jean Val Jean in the priest’s presence and ask if he wanted to press charges. The priest looks at the prisoner and says, “I was hoping you would come back. Why you forgot the candlesticks!” Once the police leave, Jean val Jean asks the priest why he set him free and the priest says, “My brother, You have been bought with a price. No longer do you belong to the darkness but to the Light now go and don’t ever forget. Don’t ever forget.”
      When I think about our dark sides and our light sides, I hear Christ gently and compassionately say to me, “I have bought you with a price – you don’t belong to the dark. Never forget.”

      I learn so much from story. Thanks for your comments and engagement with the material.

  3. mm Tim Clark says:

    Your story made me look at friends I know who have converted (to Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, etc.) more generously and with a better perspective. Thank you.

    I feel like I have so much to say about the dark/shadow side and religion. But it’s still forming. in short, when I bring my whole self to Jesus, I’m bringing the darkness too and exposing it to the light. I’m not ashamed of where Im holding the hand of a devil (Jesus took shame away on the cross) or guilty (my guilt is gone because of the cross) but to recognize it for what it is, name it, and release it because it does’t serve God’s purposes in me. Yes, sometimes I have to release it every day, but as a surrendered child of God i keep doing that over and over and over and over until it’s fully released.

    Ok, not so short. Thank you for the question and the blog post. Really great stuff.

    • mm Pam Lau says:

      Tim,
      I appreciate your candor and your engagement. I said this to Kim but I feel like it fits here again as you articulated so well the struggle:

      I often think of the book and play, Les Miserables in the scene where Jean Val Jean is brought back to the priest (the very priest who housed him after he was in prison) because he stole their silver. The police roughly place Jean Val Jean in the priest’s presence and ask if he wanted to press charges. The priest looks at the prisoner and says, “I was hoping you would come back. Why you forgot the candlesticks!” Once the police leave, Jean val Jean asks the priest why he set him free and the priest says, “My brother, You have been bought with a price. No longer do you belong to the darkness but to the Light now go and don’t ever forget. Don’t ever forget.”
      When I think about our dark sides and our light sides, I hear Christ gently and compassionately say to me, “I have bought you with a price – you don’t belong to the dark. Never forget.”

      So thankful we are in the program together!

  4. mm John Fehlen says:

    Like Tim, I too have friends and peers that have made their way “home” to Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy. Having grown up in it, I already have a deep appreciation and perspective. Here is what I (personally) am missing right now in my life: a deep sense of peace and slowness to my faith. I move too fast. I am frazzled.

    You mentioned your friend that had panic attacks.

    Pam, just yesterday while driving to a high-level meeting in Portland, I had a significant panic attack. Then another that night while trying to sleep. I don’t mention this for sympathy, but only to resonate with that friends deep desire for peace, structure, and well, magic.

    After 30+ years of full-time, professional ministry – all of it on massive stages and platforms – I am, well, in the words of your friend, longing for divine moments of peace.

    Appreciate this post, and what it brought up in my heart on a deeply personal level. Thank you Pam.

    • mm Pam Lau says:

      John,
      Thank you for opening your self in response to the post as I fully believe there’s a healing and learning for all of us as we plunge the depths of what motivates, drives and attacks us as we take the Kingdom by force.
      I keep thinking about Friedman’s book, The Failure of Nerve where he talks about over and over the importance of a leader’s PRESENCE. And what you described with such authenticity is how the enemy of your soul keeps trying to snatch your PRESENCE, your PEACE, the essence of Christ in you. This is why I am 100 percent, fully persuaded in intercessory prayer from groups for leaders like yourself. It’s not that you don’t have people who pray for you – I know you do! My sense is that we are at another level spiritually and therefore it calls for another level of intercession fighting back. I, too, have panic like you described and some of my worse were days after public ministry. I will never forget the day I sat across from Georgene Rice and told her about my experiences. She just looked me right in the eye and said, “That should never be the experience of a Believer of Christ.” I said, “Well, it’s been mind and I am completely dependent on Christ!” I am not so sure she would day that today – that was 20 years ago. We are in need of Amazing Grace. Thanks for your comments, John! So thankful we are all on this cohort together!

  5. Travis Vaughn says:

    Pam, a couple of things came to mind while reading your post. First, thank you for telling the story of your friend who has “converted to Eastern Orthodoxy.” I know of some names who have moved in that direction, and I have often wondered why — really more out of curiosity. After all, that was not my tradition, nor the tradition(s) of most of my friends. But your post has created a pathway in my mind for understanding the “why” more than any other. Much to reflect on here!

    Second, regarding your question (“Might Lieberman’s words about transcendence be likened to Friedman’s universal phenomenon on having the capacity to get out of our emotional climate?”), I think “yes” in the sense that I/we understand our need to cling to the “Other” (to reference Simon Walker) and operate from that place, a place where our emotion is not absent but it’s under the reign of Christ (subject to / attached to) and in concert with the Spirit of God. I think “yes” in the sense that an understanding of transcendence begins with God who provides the capacity we need to do as Friedman has said. Great post.

  6. mm Pam Lau says:

    Travis! You are so gracious and gentle and bold all at once! Thank you for engaging in the material as you do.

    You wrote: I think “yes” in the sense that I/we understand our need to cling to the “Other” (to reference Simon Walker) and operate from that place, a place where our emotion is not absent but it’s under the reign of Christ (subject to / attached to) and in concert with the Spirit of God. I think “yes” in the sense that an understanding of transcendence begins with God who provides the capacity we need to do as Friedman has said.

    Any chance you looked back at the comments on my blog and read Tim’s and John’s remarks about this? My question for you is do you think that we can be completely dependent on “Other” cling to Christ and still be under attack from the enemy as leaders? And if so, what do you really see as a way to counter it? If you can name this, Travis, you could become famous! LOL!

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