The conversation IS the relationship
“Our careers, our companies, our relationships, and indeed our very lives succeed or fail, gradually, then suddenly, one conversation at a time.”1 While no single conversation is guaranteed to change the trajectory of a career, a company, a relationship, or a life, any single conversation can. This is why I strongly believe the words of Susan Scott, “This ongoing conversation I have been having is not about the relationship. The conversation is the relationship.”2 I truly strive to embody this principle because I recognize that every conversation I engage in is a reflection of the relationship I’m building. And more importantly, the conversation is the relationship.
In what many believe to be some of the most challenging and divisive years in American history, the effort to engage in respectful and meaningful dialogue between individuals with vastly different beliefs and ideologies has become increasingly daunting. Therefore, the conversation is destroying the relationship. In response to this growing concern, Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay have offered a hopeful path forward through their book, How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide. They present a thoughtful, step-by-step approach designed to foster effective conversations with those who hold deeply entrenched views on religion, politics, and morality. This book helps all people realize the conversation is the relationship.
Boghossian and Lindsay seek to do much more than offer practical strategies; they truly aspire to guide their readers through the complex landscape of philosophical, epistemological, and moral aspects of belief. Their heartfelt goal is to empower individuals with the empathy, respect, and openness required to navigate conversations that may feel daunting or even impossible. With compassion as their guiding principle, they encourage us to reach out and connect with others in profound ways, striving to bridge divides and nurture understanding, even in the face of our differences.
I truly appreciate how the authors highlight the challenges many people face when trying to communicate, particularly those with differing political views. It’s a poignant reminder of how difficult it can be to connect with one another in such polarized times. The authors wrote, “Few people know how to talk to “the other side,” and many consider those who believe differently to be an existential threat-that is, someone whose presence threatens everyone else’s very existence.”3 The authors refer to these as impossible conversations: “conversations that feel futile because they take place across a seemingly unbridgeable gulf of disagreement in ideas, beliefs, morals, politics, or worldviews.”4 Ultimately this book is about talking to people who hold different beliefs.
When I reflect on two individuals who held contrasting beliefs, Jesus of Nazareth and Judas Iscariot come to mind. Their relationship was marked by a profound complexity, as even though they never engaged in direct conflict, there were moments of disagreement. One such instance occurred when a woman anointed Jesus’ feet with an exquisite alabaster jar of perfume, using her hair and tears to express her devotion. Judas expressed concern, believing that the expensive fragrance could have been sold to benefit the poor. While Jesus understood Judas’s intentions were not entirely sincere, he saw the deeper struggles within him.
As the moment of betrayal approached in the garden, Jesus turned to Judas and called him “friend.” This act of compassion was remarkable, considering that Judas’s actions were about to bring excruciating emotional, physical, and spiritual anguish to Jesus. Yet, in that defining moment, Jesus exemplified an extraordinary ability to reach out with love and understanding, even toward someone who seemed unlovable. His response serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of compassion and empathy, especially when faced with differing beliefs.
In any conversation, it’s essential to foster a genuine connection with the other person, just like Jesus did with Judas and all his disciples. This can be achieved by listening attentively, showing kindness instead of “shooting the messenger,”5and offering the benefit of the doubt to one another. Boghossian and Lindsay emphasize the importance of refraining from criticizing the messenger, as this approach can hinder meaningful dialogue. Sometimes, individuals may not realize they are simply conveying a message rather than fully engaging in the conversation. By adopting a thoughtful, Socratic method—asking insightful questions and embracing a “listening and learning”6 mindset—we can help our conversation partners feel more comfortable and prevent misunderstandings from escalating. This not only nurtures trust and respect but also paves the way for more constructive interactions. Moreover, it enhances the notion that the conversation is the relationship.
As the discussion evolves, it’s important to recognize when it might be best to step back to protect the integrity of the relationship. This is what Marcus Warner and Jim Wilder meant by “remain relational by keeping relationships bigger than problems.”7 This awareness is a vital aspect of effective communication.
In the subsequent chapters, the authors explore a progression of conversational tactics, ranging from beginner to master levels. At the beginner level (covered in chapter three), Boghossian and Lindsay highlight the value of clearly defining terms and modeling the behaviors we hope to inspire in others. It’s equally important to be mindful of common conversational pitfalls, such as sharing provocative religious, political, or philosophical content on social media. Often, individuals who engage in this way are simply seeking validation for their views, rather than fostering a healthy dialogue. By being aware of these tendencies, we can create a more empathetic and open environment for conversation.
The intermediate level (chapter four) focuses on developing skill sets that can help facilitate meaningful conversations, even when disagreements arise. It’s important to recognize that disagreeing is completely acceptable. Unfortunately, many discussions may start to break down when participants struggle to navigate these disagreements. By embracing compassion and understanding, we can create a safe space for dialogue and growth, allowing us to move past conflicts.
In the advanced level (chapter five), Boghossian and Lindsay invite readers to explore a deeper understanding of conversation strategies. They lovingly highlight the significance of adhering to “Rapoport’s Rules,” encouraging us to restate points of agreement and to acknowledge the insights gained throughout our discussions.
At the master stage, the authors gently guide us to synthesize the information shared with our conversation partner by thoughtfully summarizing what we’ve learned about the various perspectives presented. By doing so, we not only showcase our comprehension of their views but also foster a sense of connection and understanding, allowing rapport to flourish as our conversation evolves.
Ultimately, while I resonate with the core ideas of the book, I find myself reflecting on the challenges I may face in mastering the advanced techniques needed to engage with hardliners and extremists. I say this with a deep understanding that the individuals I usually interact with are not looking for a debate; rather, they come seeking support to navigate their profound, underlying issues. As the authors gently remind me, there’s no need to stress about actively seeking people out; instead, I will naturally encounter them as I navigate through life. With the tools I’ve gained, I feel more empowered to express my thoughts, truly understand others, and foster meaningful connections.
- Susan Scott. Fierce Conversations. 2.
- Ibid. 5.
- Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay. How to Have Impossible Conversations. 3.
- Ibid. 3.
- Ibid. 22.
- Ibid. 21.
- Marcus Warner and Jim Wilder. Rare Leadership. 123.
About the Author
Todd E Henley
Todd is an avid cyclist who loves watching NASCAR, photography, and playing Madden football. He is addicted to reading, eating fruits and vegetables, and drinking H2O. His passion is talking about trauma, epigenetics, chromosomes, and the brain. He has been blessed with a sensationally sweet wife and four fun creative children (one of which resides in heaven). In his free time he teaches at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary and is the Founder/Executive Director of Restore Counseling Center.10 responses to “The conversation IS the relationship”
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Oh man, Todd, you issue a simple challenge to stay relational during these seemingly impossible conversations, but sometimes it doesn’t feel so simple does it? I’m thinking of the upcoming holiday celebrations and the inevitable interactions with some very diverse viewpoints. I should probably reread this book between now and the holidays!
Hey Kim, as I was writing I thought, “Is my post too simplistic?” After a little thought I believe it is because there are conversations that are just difficult to navigate, especially when it’s people we have been knowing for a long time. God bless us as we strive to navigate those challenging conversations over the holidays. 😊
Todd,
Great point that the conversation IS the relationship. Keeping that in mind is so important!
It is difficult, as you point out, to engage with extremists. After the election I know many people who have decided to not engage anyone who voted for the other candidate bc they feel a vote for the other was an act of violence against them or against a more marginalized group of people. I don’t disagree with them but I also don’t think the way forward is to take my ball and go home. And yet, daaaaang, that is hard not to do.
I definitely think you are correct that “By adopting a thoughtful, Socratic method—asking insightful questions and embracing a ‘listening and learning’ mindset—we can help our conversation partners feel more comfortable and prevent misunderstandings from escalating“ but that takes a lot of humility! Not always easy when you are feeling threatened! And I do appreciate that you also say, “As the discussion evolves, it’s important to recognize when it might be best to step back to protect the integrity of the relationship.” Or, keeping the relationship bigger than the problem. I’ve tried to do this with some close relatives who I love dearly – not always easy to do.
Todd, as usual, so much wisdom. Thank you!
Hey Kally. Thanks for your realistic response. I felt my post could have been a little more realistic because family and political conversations/relationships can be very tough to navigate. And thanks for actually thinking my post was worth reading.
I like how you tied in a relationship in the Bible. Utilizing the story of Jesus and Judas was a great tie in to your emphasis on relationship as a key part of conversations. I wonder if we all have a small desire to persuade someone to our side? Maybe not so much as to our side, but perhaps to be understood and seen?
Hey Jana. That is a good thought. Do I want to persuade people to my side or just want to be understood. Maybe we all want a little of both which is okay but if we had the choice we probably would rather be understood and seen. Thanks for your thoughts young lady.
Hi Todd,
Your post touched my heart. You wrote about how to build a conversation, even if it is difficult or impossible at first. However, everyone today needs your emphasis on listening and making people comfortable. You wrote, “We can help our conversation partners feel more comfortable and prevent misunderstandings from escalating. This not only nurtures trust and respect but also paves the way for more constructive interactions. Moreover, it enhances the notion that the conversation is the relationship.” This shows your kindness and sincerity in building a conversation that respects others. I had that feeling every time we talked in the Advances. In your opinion, to successfully change a conversation from impossible to comfortable, what is the most difficult obstacle?
Blessings
Hey my wonderful Dinka. That is a tough question. The bible says, “A soft answer turns away wrath.” So I would say, the first thing is responding with a soft answer. Next being humble and admitting when wrong. Third, communicate to the other person when you feel they are right. So the most difficult obstacle is listening to learn and being humble.
Todd,
Thank you for highlighting the important thing. . . the person and the relationship. There is so much that is “behind the scenes” in a person’s reaction, belief system, and past that informs their present reality.
Hey Cathy. I love that phrase, “Behind the scenes.” In fact, I’m going to use it more often in counseling because so much is behind the scenes. Once again, thanks for enriching my studies. 😊