It is not polite to discuss politics and religion…
In writing his book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided By Politics and Religion Johnathan Haidt dismisses the old cliche, “It is not polite to discuss politics and religion”. In bringing these two topics to the forum he asks a very good question. Why are people so divided by these two topics? It does not matter what side of the coin you fall on, if someone argues against your position, the first reaction from most Americans is visceral at the very least. Take for example the following two statements: 1. I do not believe that practicing homosexuals should be allowed to marry, or 2. It is my body you have no right to tell me whether or not I can have an abortion. Say one of the two to the wrong crowd and you will be decried as either an intolerant, misogynistic, bigot, or a child killer, and do not try to change the others mind, you will just get anger and resentment thrown at you. So Haidt asks the question, why, why are we so divided.
In the chapter, Religion Is a Team Sport, to be focused on in this discussion, I found something about myself that I always was concerned about. I see faces in inanimate objects all the time, whether it is a floor patter, the sky, bricks in a house. I always just assumed this was because I was just plain weird. I find out it is just my “hypersensitive agency detection device” [1]. Turns out we have a face recognition system that gives us false positives all the time. This point is the beginning of the New Atheists argument against religion. It is because of this device that our ancestors, thousands of years ago, saw things in nature, could not come up with a good explanation and attributed the thing to an unknown, at first, higher power. In fact, Haidt points out Richard Dawkins quote “no known culture lacks some version of the time-consuming, wealth-consuming, hostility-provoking rituals, the anti-factual, counterproductive fantasies of religion.” [2] In the New Atheists world, religion is just a crutch for the weak minded. Instead, they argue that morality is a product of evolution. They argue that religion is a parasite or an infection that must be rid of in society before humanity can truly be evolved. They argue further “Scientists, humanists, and the small number of others who have escaped infection and are still able to reason must work together to break the spell, lift the delusion, and bring about the end of faith.’ [3]
Haidt then gives the argument for a better way, that:
“Scientists who are not on the New Atheist team have been far more willing to say that religion might be an adaptation ()i.e., it might have evolve because it conferred benefits on individuals or groups?[4]
They argue that the advent of religion has helped humanity, not that it is always a good thing, the 911 bombings, the crusades, etc, but there are definite advantages to religion. It brings a community together. It can take care of those in need. The real shock from this section to me was the discussion of Richard Sosis work. He is an anthropologist who studied two hundred communes in the United states from the 19th century and found the communes based on a religious belief far outlived communes based on secular reasons. He came up with a central variable “the number of costly sacrifices that each commune demanded from its members” [5]. Sacrifice strengthened religious communes because, Sosis, argues sacrifices work when they have a sacred base, when there is no sacred reason, people have a tendency to buy into sacrifice. People are in life for themselves when there is no higher reason for living. I have seen this played out in my dealings with working along side homeless ministries. One thing churches get a glut of is people looking to find things to do to work off public service mandates from a court. At least, I have found this to be true in the churches where I have served. A person will come in, ask to do public service, do a poor job at what ever they were tasked with, ask for your signature and then never be seen again. Contrast that with a group from a church on a mission trip. I will describe one I took a youth group on after hurricane Ike along the Texas coast. I took 45 youth and adults (85%) youth, on a spring break trip to Liberty, Tx. Not what you would find listed in the “funnest spring break ideas” book. We worked on a church who had been hammered by the hurricane. Two buildings needed new roofs and an office area had to be rebuilt.We stayed at another church on cots and made our own food in the morning and evening and had sack lunches for lunch. We worked from 9 am till 5 pm for five straight days. They were not professionals, but they did a tremendous job and did not ask for a thing except to go back down to the area in the summer so they could help another church.
I know you do not have to be religious to help others, there are many organizations that do great work and have no affiliation with a church. I will argue though, through religion, this world is made a better place. Religious people in the United States give more per capita than secular give by a long ways, and not just to religious institutions.
The one thing I found lacking in Haidt’s book was a point Aldric Hama said about it, “Why there is a pronounced anti-religious attitude permeating the West is not entirely addressed in the book and begs to be answered.” [6] While Haidt brought out many good points on how religion can be a help to people he never asked or answered the above question. I have a good idea, people who do not know God do not have the Holy Spirit to guide them, in missing this equation there will always be animosity or at least a low level contempt for the things of God.
[1] Haidt, Jonathan. The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion. New York: Vintage Books, 2013. 292.
[2] Ibid. 292.
[3] Ibid. 295.
[4] Ibid. 296.
[5] Ibid. 298.
[6] Hama, Aldric. “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion.” The Journal of Social, Political and Economic Studies 38, no. 3 (2013): 367-376.
About the Author
Jason Turbeville
A pastor, husband and father who loves to be around others. These are the things that describe me. I was a youth minister for 15 years but God changed the calling on my life. I love to travel and see where God takes me in my life.10 responses to “It is not polite to discuss politics and religion…”
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Jason,
Good introduction and I will add that it will not be long until they charge you with a “hate crime” for what you are describing. In fact, one major chain has stopped serving Police Officers because they say they make the customers “nervous.” If we keep going in the same direction, I predict that Bible studies will be banned in public restaurants. It will only take one major chain store to start the wave of continued persecution for Christians.
Ok, back to the present case at hand, you, and your post. I thought you were overly polite to the author, while showing his atheistic – now Buddhist bias. He is a real example of the “walking dead”, not like the fiction TV show that people gorge themselves on and become desensitized to the spiritual warfare around them. Haidt, like many others are the walking dead, without Christ, putting in their time on earth until an eternity of separation from God begins after the return of Christ. Pretty depressing really, for him and others.
Stand firm,
M. Webb
Mike,
I thing the North American church could probably do with some real persecution. “The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church” as Tertullian wrote. It is sad to see the road an atheist is walking but the thing to do is pray that God does something in his life to get his attention.
Jason
Great concluding point Jason. The cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. When Haidt was speaking positively about religion, It did sound like he only thought of religion as a means to an end and not something intrinsically of value.
Kyle,
I do believe he thinks religion is nothing but a salve to make one feel better, it breaks a heart to see that. It used to be me so I understand where he is coming from. It is the hardest thing in the world for an adult to admit his weakness.
Jason
Hi Jason,
Great perspectives! I personally cannot stand the words “religion” and “spiritual” because they take the relationship completely out. Obviously our author has scar tissue from religion, I just wish he could discover relationship. And as you so well pointed out, the guidance of the Holy Spirit as we relate together!
Jay,
I have often said I am not a religious man, I am a child of the most high God. Religion gets us in trouble. But through the relationship we have the ability to be made whole. Thanks for you encouragement brother.
Jason
Great post Jason! I loved your story about the kids going on the mission trip for their Spring break, especially since it is Spring break here right now and I don’t know very many teenagers who would give up their spring break to work for free. What a true contrast you highlighted between that and the ones court ordered. I also agreed with your answer at the end for why there is an anti-religious attitude in the US…”I have a good idea, people who do not know God do not have the Holy Spirit to guide them, in missing this equation there will always be animosity or at least a low level contempt for the things of God.”
Jake,
Thanks for the encouragement, it is a blast to take kids who are willing to sacrifice a time that is supposed to be about “fun” and watch them enjoy the fruit of serving God, it is one of the things I miss most about being a youth minister.
Jason
Jason,
I am glad you chose to highlight the chapter on religion. I wonder if in fact we in the church are much different then those who have no religious affiliation. Though Sosis suggests that a religious affiliation provides greater purpose for self-sacrifice I wonder how much personal benefit is actually derived. It is likely that individuals receive some other form of reinforcement from the group that motivates them. I think that even in the church we are still pretty much in life for ourselves.
I am curious about your example of the spring break trip and comparing that with the individuals needing to complete community service. Do you think that the context plays a role in this? 1 form of service is mandated while the other is encouraged in community. Perhaps we need to think about how we could make mandatory service more community oriented and provide other means of external motivation like that received by your students. What do you think?
Dan,
Great question, I believe context is a big difference, one being punitive and the other voluntary. I can also use community clean up days as an example, they were voluntary but the joy was not there in the groups participating. I am not sure but I thing getting out of one comfort, sleeping on cots working in for people who have gone through a disaster can have deeper meaning for the people helping.
Jason