Is there any hope for the Church in D.C.?
Both Fuller and Wallis’ books were helpful primers for our week together in DC and I am looking forward to learning from them both together as cohorts!
Fuller seeks to add perspective in his book High Ceilings and his own insights into a long history of scholarship and debate around the biblical role of women in leadership. He identifies himself in his introduction as a “complementarian-egalitarian” where biblical roles in the family are different from roles within the church.
I appreciate his insight on the first pages that, “The fullness of Man would be seen in two image bearers.”[1] This is such an important point to make; that both men and women together are needed to fully reflect the image of God.
However, Fuller and I quickly diverge in our viewpoints when he states that, as a result of the fall, God has given men authority in the home over women because “eve sinned first”. While the objective of this post is not to go too far into detail, this was the major theological sticking point for me of his argument, which the rest of his position flows from. He ignores the fact that Adam, “was with” (Gen. 3:7) Eve when she took the fruit and that they both failed in this moment together. The results of the fall, then, were separation and hierarchy, which were not a part of God’s original design. Fuller seems so close to being an egalitarian, but something is stopping him from getting there in the need for a hierarchical view of the marriage relationship (even if not really in practice, see page 26). I think the answer is in his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11 and his assertion that, “from there didatic statements we know that the heavenly Father is positionally over the Son.”[2] This may not be subordinationism in its heretical sense, but it does help me understand where the argument comes from, though I disagree with it.
In his treatment of the text in Ephesians, he misses the context of household codes in the Greco-Roman world[3] and the radical nature of Paul’s thesis statement, “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.”[4]
What I’d like to ask Pastor Fuller about in regard to this text is how and when he made the decision to separate family roles from congregational roles? I am always curious how our experiences and training impact the way we read texts like these and interpret them. What hermeneutical lenses influence his interpretation of these texts? Have those lenses been questioned?
In Fuller’s second text, Dreaming in Black and White, Fuller tells us that this book, “is about believe for, creating and capturing iconic moments of resolve and healing.”[5] Ultimately, he hopes that in writing this book the reader might develop skills of reconciliation that resist bitterness and work towards the kingdom vision of a multi-ethnic people living and worshipping together. This book is an important testimony to the stories of heartache and of hope that future generations of leaders need to know. Fuller’s approach is winsome and he shares his personal story along with national stories. His main heart as a pastor is this prayer, “Lord, make (this church) look more like heaven than like me.”[6]
What I’d like to ask Fuller in regard to this prayer is how pastors from places where there isn’t as much racial diversity can live this out? How can I be a “kingdom culture builder” in a town that is predominantly white?
Finally, in doing an inspectional reading of Jim Wallis’ book, God’s Politics, I was intrigued and encouraging by the goal of his book to bring hope and perspective to what often feels like a hopeless situation. Wallis writes that his book, “challenges both the Right and the Left–offering new vision for faith and politics in America.”[7] I chuckled cynically as he talked about how divided the world was in 2005 and just how far we’ve continued to divide in this country. Wallis puts a special emphasis on the poor and the special emphasis that God puts on caring for the poor in Scripture. From our class zoom chat last week, I was able to identify Wallis as another “Augustinian” when it came to the role of faith and politics. Concerned about fundamentalists desire to create a theocracy he admits that “biblical faith regards political power much more suspiciously.”[8] While I don’t have space to continue my inspectional summary of Wallis’ book, I did develop some questions I’d like to ask him next week. First, since writing this book in 2005, where have you seen progress of “God’s Politics” in America making a different for the kingdom on earth as it is in heaven? Secondly, how do you continue to “choose hope” when there are setbacks and fight bitterness and cynicism and discouragement?
I look forward to interacting with these authors together next week!
[1] Fuller. High Ceilings, 5.
[2] Fuller, High Ceilings, 33.
[3] Aristotle and the Household Codes | Psephizo
[4] Ephesians 5:21, NIV
[5] Fuller, Dreaming in Black and White, 7.
[6] Fuller, Dreaming in Black and White, 48.
[7] Wallis, God’s Politics, xix
[8] Wallis. God’s Politics, 67.
About the Author
Ryan Thorson
Follower of Jesus. Husband. Father. Pastor. Coach. I am passionate about helping people discover the gift of Sabbath and slow down spirituality in the context of our busy world.12 responses to “Is there any hope for the Church in D.C.?”
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Hi Ryan, I also look forward to meeting these authors in person. Based on these readings, what do you hope to change, reinforce, or continue doing in your own ministry context?
I’d love to learn more about how to cultivate a multi-cultural community in my local church! Thanks Kari
Hi Ryan, Your comments on the fall were thought provoking, and I know there have been LOTS of them throughout the ages. I think that Fuller’s thoughts resonated because that is has been taught in various settings in my life. Thank you for that. I agree, the bottom line is that both sinned. Yet, I wonder, maybe the heirarchy wasn’t based on who sinned first but purely God choice on how to consequate her behavior. Any thoughts on that?
Hi Diane, Thanks for your response and question. It is possible that God hands out the curses/consequences and seems to reinforce the patriarchy that existed during the time these stories were being told. What seems to also be prevalent in Scripture, to me, is the continual subversion of hierarchy and the desire to restore scripture to the pre-fall state. If that is true, then our marriages and churches ought to reflect the equal (but different) nature of the two image bearers serving together in God’s Kingdom. Thoughts?
Okay, so this may be off the track a little, but if we look how Jesus related to women, I think it might add some weight to your initial comments. Can’t wait to hear how Fuller responds to your question now. I think the tension is actually healthy. It allows people to consider alternative meaning when reading the very same words in scripture.
Ryan,
Thanks for highlighting where you come to disagreement with Fuller. I struggled with that description myself. I am going to step in and offer my thoughts for your question to Fuller (whether I am qualified to or not is another story.)
You can be a kingdom-culture builder in your white community in a variety of ways. I think about how throughout history most people were not this integrated as our communities are now. Many communities would have been very “white” or monocultural. Yet, even in these communities there are ways to bring people together. You highlighted one of them in regards to the male/female dynamic and also even in a white community there are different economic levels present.
Thanks Adam for the great reminders and suggestions. We often forget socioeconomic divdes and the cultures they create also. I am grateful that our church is cultivating a multi-cultural community in those ways and will continue to pray for more opportunities to reflect the kingdom of heaven on earth!
Ryan,
I too live in a fairly White area with the biggest cultural diversity being among the Amish. Our denomination has two sister churches in the Cleveland area, one is predominately Black and the other is multiracial with a Black pastor. We have had those pastors come and preach in our church and I have been able to develop a friendship with those pastors. I cannot remember where you live, but do you any racially/ethnically diverse pastors nearby with whom you and or congregation can/have develop a relationship?
Hey Jeff! Great suggestions. We have had pastors of color come and speak at our church in the past, and have some in training in our church as well, but it has been a while and this was a great reminder. thanks!
Ryan, I appreciate the way you processed these books. I am interested in Fuller’s response to your question about how and when he separated the family from the congregational role. Where do you land within the four perspectives he shared about roles ? Has your position developed over time or been the same over time?
Ryan, I love your gracious question to Fuller about how and when he decided to separate family and congregational roles for women. You are assuming he has had an experience that contributed to his interpretation. You are more gracious than I and I am glad to learn this from you. 🙂
With regard to Wallis’s warning about creating a theocracy, I begin to think about the warnings John writes in Revelation. How might we take those warnings and turn them into everyday, in-the-trenches realities? (Small question, I know. Just go ahead and answer it during your next 5-minute break. 😉 )
Hi Ryan, As I read through your summaries, I was reminded of our desperate need for healing in every arena. I am curious to know what keeps you encouraged and hopeful as you lead a congregation in such a polarized time. What brings you healing as a leader?