Has Anything Changed?
Do you ever look around the world today and notice all of the various issues with which we must contend? Do you ever wonder if things are different today than compared to the past.; do leaders face the same issues? King Solomon stated that there is nothing new under the sun, does that hold true today?[1]. For this week’s reading and blog, I found political writings by Duchess of New Castle, Margaret Cavendish published in 1662 titled Orations of Divers Sorts, Accommodated to Divers Places.[2] I thought it would be interesting to see a feminine view on various issues of her day. As I highlight some of her thoughts, done through the use of orations, we will discover that seventeenth century England and surrounding countries were dealing with some of the same issues and her thoughts are ideas that people still have in the twenty-first century.
Cavendish was a woman a head of her time, she was the first woman to 
be invited to attend a meeting of the Royal Society[3]. Yet, given the name Mad Madge after her death due to her writings and possibly the way she dressed.[4] She was described by Virginia Woolf as “’a giant cucumber’ choking the roses and carnations in an otherwise orderly garden of seventeenth-century literature.” [5]
Cavendish In her orations takes readers throughout a journey to several different scenarios such as a marketplace in a metropolitan city, a battlefield amid a civil war, funerals and weddings. In her orations, Cavendish writes as if someone who is present in the scene is the one who is speaking, often a person of influence, such as a general, king, preacher, or councillor. Cavendish prefaces her orations by stating “I have endeavored in this book to express perfect orators that speak perfect orations, as to cause their auditors to act or believe according to the orator’s opinion, judgement, design or desire.”[6] Often, more than one person speaks in which Cavendish cleverly presents both sides of an issue. This is one of the key takeaways from her writings. A person in a position of power (leadership) needs to not only understand both sides of an issue but needs to be able to clearly articulate both sides of an issue. Through her writings Cavendish shows that she has given much thought to the concerns of European citizens living in the seventeenth century. As you read her writings you quickly discover that not much has changed in the last three hundred years. For example, Cavendish wrote orations giving both sides as to whether a country should go to war with its neighbors. In her Oration for War Cavendish writes “for in peace you become ignorant of the arts of war, and living sluggishly you lose courage of men and become effeminate and having neither skill nor courage, you cannot expect safety.”[7] While in discussions with an enlisted friend of mine over the Fourth of July holiday, some of the same ideas were expressed. This person lamented the fact that he seems to be the only one of his equally ranked peers who routinely joins in the daily physical training exercises. He also complained of the overall laziness and carelessness of those under his command.
Another topic that Cavendish touched upon is the role of the government and the role of the church and their relationship to each other. This was echoed throughout N. T. Wright and Michael F. Bird’s book Jesus and the Powers.[8] In one oration Cavendish mentions that the failure to give persons liberty to believe and worship how they want will lead to a civil war.[9] In another oration Cavendish states that “if you give liberty in the church, you must give liberty in the state, and so let everyone do what they will, which will be a strange government, or rather I may say no government; for if there be no rules, there can be no laws, and if there be no laws there can be no justice, and if no justice, no safety, and if no safety no propriety, . . .[10] This echoes the statements of Wright and Bird when they discuss anarchy compared to an established governmental system[11].
Cavendish touched on several other topics that are relevant issues for those living in the twenty-first century, taxation, style of government (democracy versus monarchy), whether or not to have a standing army, etc. Cavendish also spoke on a hot topic that is very relevant today, gender roles. What is the role of women? Are they “witless and strengthless and unprofitable creatures, did they not bear children?”[12] Or should they “imitate men, so will our bodies and minds appear more masculine, and our power will increase by our actions.”[13] This is a great debate that apparently leaders have wrestled with for hundreds of years and exists even yet today. We have countries, like Mexico, that have elected women as leaders, yet we have Christian denominations that disaffiliate churches because they choose to have women in the role of pastor.[14]
Cavendish’s orations were cleverly written, addressed topics that were relevant in the mid seventeenth century and appear to still be relevant across the world today. Cavendish showed that she could understand and communicate multiple sides to these topics and while many may have thought a female should not be involved in politics and political thought. Cavendish demonstrates her ability to think and clearly articulate her thoughts, very important tasks for any leader.
[1] Ecclesiastes 1:9-10. Solomon wrote “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, ‘Look! This is something new’? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.”
[2] Margaret Cavendish. Orrations of Divers Sorts, Accommodated to Divers Places. Susan James (ed). Cambridge UK, Cambridge Press 2003.
[3] Michael Robbins, “The Royally Radical Life of Margaret Cavendish,” The Paris Review, April 15, 2019, https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2019/04/15/the-royally-radical-life-of-margaret-cavendish/.
[4] Megan Leyland, “Women in History: Margaret Cavendish,” English Heritage, accessed September 6, 2024, https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/learn/histories/women-in-history/margaret-cavendish/.
[5] Michael Robbins.
[6] Cavendish, P. 118.
[7]Cavendish, 130.
[8] N. T. Wright and Michael F. Bird. Jesus and the Powers
[9] Cavendish, 166-167.
[10] Cavendish, p. 167.
[11] Wright and Bird, 48.
[12] Cavendish, 249.
[13] Cavendish, 249.
[14] Green and Peralta, “Mexico Elects its First Female President,” NPR, June 3, 2024, https://www.npr.org/2024/06/03/nx-s1-4989334/claudia-sheinbaum-poised-to-become-mexicos-first-female-president;Siemaszko, “Southern Baptists Vote to Expel Two Churches Led by Female Pastors,” NBC News, June 14, 2023, https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/southern-baptists-vote-expel-two-churches-led-women-pastors-rcna89282.
About the Author
Jeff Styer
Jeff Styer lives in Northeast Ohio's Amish Country. He has degrees in Social Work and Psychology and currently works as a professor of social work at Mount Vernon Nazarene University. Jeff is married to his wife, Veronica, 25+ years. Together they have 4 beautiful children (to be honest, Jeff has 4 kids, Veronica says she is raising 5). Jeff loves the outdoors, including biking, hiking, camping, birding, and recently picked up disc golf.16 responses to “Has Anything Changed?”
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Jeff, thanks for your blog and thanks for using a female leader from 1662. Her ability to present 2 sides of the issue is not only a clever literary technique, it also demonstrates her ability to think critically and objectively.
I didn’t know anything about her, so thanks for introducing me.
What is one leadership lesson you would personally apply to your context from her writings?
Graham,
I think learning to tell stories that people resonate with in order to get them to see/understand a point of view is a lesson/technique I would like to hone a little more. In my role as a professor being able to give examples of the concepts I teach is important. Storytelling is a great method, especially if you can give examples of both sides of an issue and allow the students to form their own decisions through the use of their critical thinking skills.
Hi Jeff,
It is as if Graham read my mind. I was planning on saying the same things and asking a similar question! I really appreciate you using a female voice. I looked for one and was disturbed by my lack of choices. I am curious to learn more about Cavendish. As someone who also appreciates good storytelling skills, I am curious about how you plan to improve your storytelling skills.
I am not a masterful storyteller I am actually trying to find more “case studies” to share with students to allow them to hear the personal side to the concept. For example, this coming Monday I will be discussing racism in my Cultural and Human Diversity class. I will be talking about Racial Microaggressions. I am using some stories from Brett Fuller’s Dreaming in Black and White book as examples of various microaggressions he has experienced.
Hi Jeff, thanks for your blog. I am intrigued by Cavendish and especially your observation that not much has changed in the 300 years since her writing.
Do you feel any discouragement that some of the issues we face today were around 300 years ago? Why are some issues so persistent when others are only a memory of the distant past?
Christy,
As you do your introspectional reading of Wallis next week you will see that he ends his book giving people of choice of being either cynical or hopeful. There are days when I really struggle to not be cynical. Overall, I feel that people are very leery of compromise which is why we are unable to settle so many issues that have existed for centuries. We are fearful of what we will lose if we compromise, rather than focusing on what we will gain.
Jeff,
Thanks for bringing in a book I had not heard of. You mention that many of the orations are still issues that we deal with today. Did you find any issues in her time that we are past that now that we are a “post-modern” society?
Adam,
I looked over many of the issues she addressed again in order to reply to you and feel that maybe the role of women is one that we have made the most progress on. Being a “post modern” society does not seem to have alleviated many of the issues that Cavendish addressed, war, the size of our military, trade, usury, governmental decisions, and church and state.
Hi Jeff, Thanks for your blog. I appreciate the point you made about being able to articulate both sides of an issue. I’m curious if you were able to discern the methods employed by Cavendish to come to such understanding? What of these methodologies might be most employable today? Julie
The book I read suggested that Cavendish’s husband knew people such as Descartes and Thomas Hobbes. She claims to have never had contact with them herself but listened to her husband and her brothers talk about various topics. I’m guessing it was by quietly listening to others engage in conversations on important topics of the day that Margaret Cavendish was able to hear and understand both sides of the issues. I believe that is very employable today. Ask questions and then sit back and listen to people argue their point, ask clarifying questions when necessary.
Hi Jeff,
Thank you for introducing Margaret Cavendish, the Duchess of Newcastle and her work “Orations of Divers Sorts, Accommodated to Divers Places,” published in 1662. I love the way she expressed herself through a collection of speeches or orations that reflect her views on a variety of subjects. It was creative of how Cavendish presented a series of imagined speeches delivered by various characters in different settings.
If you were to have coffee with Margaret Cavendish, the Duchess of Newcastle, what two questions you would ask her?
Shela,
Two questions for Margaret Cavendish, first what was it like to have your thoughts and views being a female in a male dominated society, do you feel you were taken seriously? My next question may be offensive, but, why at the age of 22 did you marry someone 30 years older than you? I would have more questions, such as what was it like to have to flee your country in the midst of a civil war? In what ways did the title of Duchess benefit you? Also, being English, I’m sure we are having a cup of tea and not coffee (I’m not a fan of coffee).
Jeff, thanks for the introduction to Margaret Cavendish. I see traces of Aristotle’s principles of persuasion from “The Art of Rhetoric” in what you share with her. I am curious how her work might speak to your NPO?
Chad,
Great question and I’m not sure I have a great answer. I guess what I wrote about the importance of hearing and understanding both sides of an issue is important. I feel I started that last semester with our Key Voices research. My NPO focus (as of now) is addressing pornography usage among Christian college students. I think as I get further into the project it will be important to hear and understand why the interventions I end up researching will or will not work in that setting.
Hi Jeff, I echo everyone’s comments. Thank you for this fascinating post on Margaret Cavendish. I appreciate you mentioning her thoughts concerning oration and the importance of getting the auditors to act. In your position, do you feel a sense of responsibility to get your auditors to act? What challenges have you observed in getting the auditors to move to action? Thank you again for this awesome post!
Elysse,
Yes, as a social work professor I do feel a sense of responsibility to move my students toward action. As this relates to getting students to complete their work, I have found that the student’s mental health issues is something that prevents them from fully engaging in their studies. I also teach two macro level social work classes, policy and social work with organizations and communities. Students do not move to action in these two classes because most of them do not want to be involved in macro level social work. Because of this it is hard to get students interested in the material being taught.