Conversations that Matter: Rethinking Race and Gender through Faith, with Brett Fuller and Jim Wallis
As we prepare for our trip to Washington DC next week, and in the midst of great turmoil and upheaval in the US and around the world, questions of race and gender couldn’t be more timely.
Dreaming in Black and White – Brett Fuller
This week we read two books by Brett Fuller. Let’s look at Dreaming in Black and White first. The author writes that his book…
“is all about believing for, creating and capturing iconic moments of resolve and healing. It is about leveraging and connecting those moments in a frame-by-frame continuum so that the beautiful revelation of ongoing unity and sociological health become undeniable results of the sacrifce made to produce them. It is about understanding the fears, confusion, and concerns of the white population, while rightly processing the deep pain of the black.” [1]
From this description, it is clear he is writing for two different audiences. First, he’s writing for white audiences who are constantly asking him questions about what it’s like to be Black in America and what whites can do to make things better for Black Americans.
He is also writing for Black Americans who do not yet fully appreciate the history that has brought us to the racial challenges of today. The last chapter, in particular, is written for young Black Americans.
Fuller also spends a good chapter looking at race from a biblical perspective. He states,
“Here’s my point. Let’s be as fierce in our day against what angered Jesus just as Jesus was in his time. Let’s be bold, aggressive, proactive, on fire to see the walls of division and bigotry broken down.
We’ve seen enough from the Bible just in this short chapter to know for certain that God is reaching to every kind of person on earth. We should be too. So should our churches. And the result should be respect and justice for all of us. [2]
Fuller then goes into ways to create reconciliation through true understanding. This includes recognizing that the white and Black experiences have always been different. Always.
I think the most important questions I would want to ask Brett Fuller based on this book are:
- If you knew that you only had ten more minutes before you were taken into glory, and you had the opportunity to speak to millions of white people, what’s the most important message you would like to share with white Americans regarding racial challenges?
- What is the most important, impactful, and influential thing white Americans can do or say that would begin to heal the strife and centuries of bigotry, racial injustice, and systemic racism?
- If you could fix the racial challenges in America today with a magic wand, what would you like to see?
High Ceilings: Women in Leadership – by Brett Fuller
Brett Fuller’s other book that we read, High Ceilings: Women in Leadership, was far less convincing for me. I have never heard from anyone else about the third category for the way Christians look at women in leadership: Complementary-Egalitaran.
He spends considerable time creating a biblical justification for both to exist at the same time. Meaning, that the church is egalitarian and the home is complementarian.
He defines this category: “Within the bonds of matrimony and family, men and women have different but complementary roles and responsibilities. Outside of the familial context, positions of authority and responsibility should be equally available to females as well as males.” [3]
Yet he has trouble explaining that there is a difference in acceptable authority when you look at the church vs. the home. He writes, “Within the context of marriage there are limitations and allowances that are non-negotiable. However, I can find no reason why the ‘wife’ should find those same restrictions placed upon her outside the home.” [4]
It just doesn’t make sense.
As a wife who diligently works not only to voice my own opinions in my marriage but also to give space for my husband to voice his opinions, I have trouble imagining how being in a marriage means I have less authority than when I walk out my front door.
I am grateful to be with a husband who wants to honor all the gifts and interests God has given me, just as I want to honor all his God-given gifts and interests.
That is not to say that I never submit to my husband (perhaps a less harsh term would be “acquiesce”), because I often do so out of love and or respect for his greater interest and/or expertise on certain topics. But that’s just it; in many of life’s daily situations, it’s about interest and expertise, not authority. We each take turns submitting to the other depending on the circumstances.
My husband thinks he’s very funny; one of his schticks is to call me “the boss.” I always roll my eyes and tell him I’m not the boss! We work through everything together.
But it’s one of his standing jokes, and he enjoys proving it over and over again by talking to men from other countries, such as Uber drivers when he is traveling. He takes gleeful delight in coming home and telling me all the conversations he has with other men about who is the boss in their households: “It’s always the woman.”
Only once has his joke fallen flat when the other man from another country (I forget which it was) didn’t understand what he was talking about; that man truly is the boss in his home. It made my husband uncomfortable.
We have also had the blessing of seeing our older son get married to a wonderful, smart, gifted young woman. Seven years into this marriage, they are still thriving, working through real-life challenges, and deeply in love with each other in a very egalitarian marriage.
When it comes to egalitarianism in church, I feel deeply convicted–and there is ample biblical proof for this conviction–that God calls women to leadership at least as often as men. To somewhat arbitrarily limit women and prevent them from following what God has called them to do and who God has called them to be is actually going against the will of God.
Scot McKnight has a Substack blog and this week he has several guest posts about women in church leadership (all referring to a new book I’d like to read, Confronting Sexism in the Church by Heather Matthews). In “A Call Without Confusion” Kelly Edmiston writes,
Standing in stark contrast to the conversation with my boss at the Vineyard was a conversation I had with a boss at another church a few years prior. He heard me preach a “youth sermon” (that’s what we call it in the Church of Christ!), and he was so impressed with my sermon that his idea of “mentoring” me was telling me that I should pursue a career as a news anchor.
He said, “Kelly, you are so good in front of people. You really bring the room alive with your energy. You should really consider a career on TV. You would be a great news anchor!”
I left this conversation feeling small and ashamed. He was trying to encourage me. But all I experienced was shame. I was ashamed of my gifts. I was ashamed of my body. I was ashamed of who I was. I didn’t tell anyone about this conversation because I was so embarrassed but in the secret places of my heart, I protested,
“I don’t want to be a news anchor. I want to spend my life helping people understand who Jesus is and how much God loves them.” [5]
There is so much more I could say… but I think Kelly says it all much better than I could. And in this, at least, I am in agreement with Fuller.
I would like to ask Fuller:
- You mention that there are limitations within marriage that do not apply outside the home. Can you clarify what those limitations are and how they differ in the context of church leadership?
- What do you see as the biggest barriers to women in leadership roles within the church today, and how can these be overcome?
- Have your personal experiences with women in leadership influenced your views on this topic? If so, how?
- How do you envision achieving equity in leadership roles for women and men in both church and family settings?
- What is your hope for the future of women in leadership within the church? How can individuals contribute to this vision?
God’s Politics – by Jim Wallis
In his book, God’s Politics: A New Vision for Faith and Politics in America by Jim Wallis, he argues that both the political right and left have failed to adequately represent the moral imperatives of the Christian faith. He critiques the right for its alignment with wealth and power, often neglecting issues of social justice, and he challenges the left for its secular approach, which can overlook the spiritual dimensions of social issues.
He writes, “God is not partisan; God is not a Republican or a Democrat… Faith must be free to challenge both right and left from a consistent moral ground. God’s politics… challenges everything about our politics. God’s politics reminds us of the people our poltics always neglects–the poor, the vulnerable, the left behind.” [6]
Wallis also emphasizes that faith is not just a private matter. He advocates for a public theology that engages with pressing social issues such as poverty, war, and environmental stewardship. He makes the case that engaging with these issues is deeply rooted in biblical teachings.
Wallis also calls for the church to reclaim its prophetic voice in society. As Christians, we should be actively involved in addressing social injustices and championing the margionalized. He points out that the church tends to become either too passive, politically, or too aligned with partisan agendas. Instead, we must align ourselves with the values of our faith, aiming for a more just and compassionate society.
Questions I would ask include:
- How can faith communities better engage with and advocate for marginalized populations without falling into the trap of paternalism?
- We are so incredibly divided on moral issues right now. Christians who mean well come at some core issues from very different perspectives. How can we begin to bridge the divide? What does that look like, in the trenches of daily life?
- Looking ahead, what do you see as the biggest challenges and opportunities for Christian activism in the next decade?
- How important is interfaith collaboration for addressing social issues, and what might that look like?
1) Brett Fuller, Dreaming in Black and White (BookBaby, 2021), 8.
2) Fuller, Dreaming in Black and White, 106.
3) Brett E. Fuller, High Ceilings: Women in Leadership (Monee, IL: Independently published, 2021), 2-3.
4) Fuller, High Ceilings, 41.
5) Kelly Edmiston, “A Call Without Confusion”, Scot’s Newsletter, accessed Sept. 17, 2024, https://scotmcknight.substack.com/p/a-call-without-confusion.
6) Jim Wallis, God’s Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn’t Get It, (New York, NY: Harpers Collins), 2005, xviii-xiv.
About the Author
Debbie Owen
Deborah C. Owen is an experienced spiritual director, Neuro-based Enneagram executive and life coach, disciple maker, professional writer, senior librarian, and long-time church Music Director and lay leader. She has earned the award of National Board Certification for teaching excellence, and a podcasting award, and is pursuing a Doctor of Leadership degree through Portland Seminary at George Fox University. She lives in the backwoods of Maine with her husband and flat-coated retriever. She spends as much time as she can with their 3 grown children, daughter-in-law, and 2 small grandchildren. Find her online at InsideOutMinistries.info.9 responses to “Conversations that Matter: Rethinking Race and Gender through Faith, with Brett Fuller and Jim Wallis”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Hi Debbie,
Thanks for your post. I had a bit of struggle reading High Ceilings as well – although I very much appreciated his advocacy for women to hold all positions of leadership within church and society.
His book sparked a great conversation with my husband and what it means to be a leader in the home.
How do you interpret Ephesians 5 in the context of gender roles in marriage?
Christy, Ephesians 5 emphasizes mutual submission, beginning with the call to “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ,” which suggests a partnership rather than strict hierarchical roles. This mutual respect can create an environment where both partners support each other’s gifts and callings, allowing women to pursue leadership roles.
Also, I don’t believe anyone can read any part of the NT without the context of the OT, especially what we have been given in the first chapters of Genesis. I don’t have time or space to dive too deeply into it here, but we know that God’s original plan was an egalitarian relationship between men and women, each with their respective giftings and contributions to the place where they lived.
That all fell apart after sin entered the world, as is evidenced by how quickly everything deteriorated. We soon get sickness, death, polygamy, gender differences, war… It’s not the way things are supposed to be. The greatest sin is pride; in other words, idolatry. We put everything else before God. Even the desire for authority and power.
I can’t help but feel that if we are called to bring some of heaven to earth, then it starts with egalitarianism. Between genders, between races, between people on the economic spectrum. Why make separations between us for any reason? We are all equally precious in the Lord’s sight, though differently gifted. Spiritual gifts are given without regard to gender, or any other category. Let’s use those gifts… whether it is administration (home or work), teaching, preaching, nurturing, etc.
Hi Debbie,
Thanks for your post. When Wallis called for the church to reclaim its prophetic voice in society I was reminded of Wright and Bird advocating for the church to speak truth to power and noted that these texts are written almost 20 years apart. What, if any, signs of hope do you see that the church is actually taking this prophetic role in American politics?
Julie, there are a few signs. While much of the church in the US seems – to me – to be wrong-headed, saying one thing and doing the opposite, there are voices calling for more biblical and rational ways of being.
This evangelical confession that I posted in our cohort chat is one such hopeful voice.
https://www.evangelicalconfession2024.com/
We need more… a lot more… people of faith to choose truth, justice for the oppressed, and a sacrificial mentality, instead of one that is self-centered (“It’s MINE! No one can take what’s MINE!”)
Hi Debbie,
I felt encouraged to see a number of my colleagues had shared that piece, too. See you soon!
Debbie, thank you for your post. I appreciate your insights and learning more of your perspective related to women in leadership. I also hope you have the chance to engage Fuller with your questions, especially your first question regarding limitations for women in the home.
I look forward to connecting again in DC.
Thank you Chad, I look forward to it all too! 🙂
Hi Debbie,
You are a great writer. Thank you for your post!
Based on Fuller, “Here’s my point. Let’s be as fierce in our day against what angered Jesus just as Jesus was in his time. Let’s be bold, aggressive, proactive, on fire to see the walls of division and bigotry broken down.” This highlights the need for active engagement rather than passive observation. It suggests that meaningful change requires us to take risks, speak out, and take concrete actions to dismantle systems of division and bigotry. Naturally the txt is a compelling call to action, urging us to embody the same passion and commitment to justice that Jesus demonstrated.
How do you see this message influencing your approach to leadership or activism?
Shela, what a great question. I guess I’ve been more bold and willing to take risks during this election season than I’ve ever been before, because I feel like so much is at stake. I feel like in doing so, I am doing my small part to help reduce bigotry by calling it out. The problem is that it creates more division.
So I’m not sure.