A Manual for Creating Atheists: The Sequel
As a Christian, I would find a conversation with Peter Boghossian nearly impossible.
Hmm…I wonder if there is a book on the market that could help me with this? Oh wait, Mr. Boghossian wrote one called How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide.
Allow me a moment of sheer snark: I think this book should be called A Manual for Creating Atheists: The Sequel.
You see, this book, written in 2019, felt like Part Two of his 2013 book A Manual for Creating Atheists. As a self-proclaimed atheist, Peter Boghossian has given us a masterful book (honestly) on how to have impossible conversations, all the while trying to convince the reader, particularly those he calls “religious hardliners” (pg. 6), that we are crazy to believe what we believe.
NOTE: If you inspectionally read this one, just trust me, he put those that believe the Bible, the resurrection of Jesus, etc. on blast from page 1 through to the footnotes.
Now, of course, he has every right to hold to his atheistic beliefs (do atheists call them ‘beliefs?’), and he can write whatever he darn well wants! Last time I checked, this is still ‘Merica. But, golly, he sure has it out for religious people. Guess I should have expected that from a Portland State University faculty member. Check that, former faculty member. In September 2021, Boghossian resigned from his position at Portland State University. In his resignation letter, he accuses the university of creating a culture where students are “afraid to speak openly and honestly,” of training students to “mimic the moral certainty of ideologues,” and of “intolerance of divergent beliefs and opinions,” and said that he faced harassment and retaliation for speaking out.
Sounds like he had some impossible conversations on his hands.
OK…snarky rant over. I honestly found so many beneficial tips, tricks, and principles in this book. Here are just a few that I captured and appreciated.
• In his seven fundamentals of a good conversation, #7 invites one to walk away, even when a conversation is going well. Don’t keep pushing your conversation partner beyond their comfort zone (pg. 28). In the words of The Gambler: ‘You gotta know when to hold ’em when to fold ’em when to walk away, and when to run.’
• Don’t interrupt or treat people rudely (pg. 40). Be civil. This book should be required reading for every current and future election cycle.
• While people think they are having arguments about substance, they’re often just disagreements about the meanings of words (pg. 41). That’s spot on.
• You can often find areas of moral agreement when you point out how extremists on your side go too far (pg. 47). This point could be so helpful in our polarized, tribalistic world right now.
So, without question, this was a robust and helpful book that I will be returning to often when I’m facing “impossible conversations,” and, in case you’re wondering, I have those frequently as a pastor. Sometimes, I sit across the table from a person who is determined against what I believe as a Christian. They set up a meeting with me to bust my chops with all their YouTube/Podcast-fueled quips and barbs against the Bible and Christianity. I’m OK with all that. I’ve heard several of these arguments before, and it hasn’t caused me to falter in my faith. Based upon this, I think Boghossian would think of ME as an “ideologue” – one unwilling or unable to revise their moral beliefs (pg. 157).
OK, OK…I may be. I don’t think I’m unmovable, but I’m not always the best judge of myself. For my first 3 years of youth ministry, a volunteer leader would bring me breath mints at youth group each week. I thought she was just being kind. I didn’t realize for a long time that she was doing that because my breath stunk, and she didn’t want students to die while being prayed for! I just didn’t realize it. I do now. Therefore, to this day, I will rarely be found without a handful of Altoids in my pocket. The point is that I don’t consider myself an unmovable ideologue. But I sure have sat across from folks who seemed like they were, and, to me, Peter Boghossian sure comes across as one, which strikes me as super ironic, given the focus of his book.
And yet, I want to be his friend. I really do. I think we could hang out, have an Oregon-based microbrew, and shoot the breeze. I know he thinks I am a “religious hardliner,” but honestly, I don’t want to debate. I don’t need to win. He doesn’t have to lose.
I want to be like Phil Vischer, who was with Peter Boghossian. You can read about it on page 73. Phil is winsome. Winsome, in case you’re wondering, is my absolute favorite word. It has always been and always will be (without being an ideologue about it!).
The story is told of an interaction between Phil and Peter, and I simply love it.
Boghassian: You know, I think the alleged resurrection of Jesus is silly, right?
Visher: [laughing] Yeah.
That’s it.
Phil didn’t get his undies all in a bunch. He just responded with: [laughing] Yeah.
In the end, this book gave me so many helpful tips, tricks, and communication principles, but the best of all is this: [laughing] Yeah.
That is so, so winsome.
P.S. A critical person approached John Wesley at a church service, saying, “My talent is to speak my mind.” Wesley replied: “That’s one talent the Lord would not care a bit if you buried!”
[laughing] Yeah.
P.P.S. Last week I had the opportunity to be on the studio set and hang out in the green room of “Real Time with Bill Mahr.” Bill is a self-declared athiest and harsh cricic of Christianity. I would have loved to have talked to him, but we were explicitly told to not approach him or talk to him unless he first engaged, so we never spoke. But I would have loved to, and it would have been, most likely, an impossible conversation. As an evangelical Christian, religious hardliner, I would have be torched by him. That’s OK, I don’t need to win. He doesn’t need to lose. I didn’t want to debate. I just wanted to have a drink and a laugh!
About the Author
John Fehlen
John Fehlen is currently the Lead Pastor of West Salem Foursquare Church. Prior to that he served at churches in Washington and California. A graduate of Life Pacific University in San Dimas, CA in Pastoral Ministry, and Vanguard University in Costa Mesa, CA with a Masters in Leadership and Spirituality. He and his wife Denise have four grown children and four grandchildren. John is the author of "Don't Give Up: Encouragement for Weary Souls in Challenging Times," a book for pastoral leaders, a children's book called "The Way I See You," and the forthcoming "Leave A Mark: The Jouney of Intentional Parenting." You can connect with John on Instagram (@johnfehlen) as well as at johnfehlen.substack.com.10 responses to “A Manual for Creating Atheists: The Sequel”
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Great post, John. Since “winsome” is one of your favorite words, I’m wondering if you’ve read Winsome Conviction: Disagreeing Without Dividing the Church, by Tim Muehlhoff and Richard Langer. I’m thinking that their book would be a nice complement to read alongside Mr. Boghossian’s book, even though Boghossian would likely consider Muehlhoff and Langer to be idealogues given their Christian faith. Nevertheless, I’ve found their book to be quite helpful with my NPO project — it was recommended to me by one of my stakeholders. Their book addresses how convictions are formed and why the “how” of such formation is important in good communication.
Great recommendation Travis. I’m grabbing it from Amazon as I type.
Blessings!
Dude, so much of what you said here I resonate with.
I felt like Boghossian told us to do one thing but embodied something else. That he was the ideologue who was unchangeable in his beliefs.
You were much more gracious than I felt in my reaction to this book. Yes there are things we can learn from it. Maybe it’s a case like when Jesus told his followers to listen to the Pharisees but not do what they did.
I’m looking forward to reading your post.
Hello from Ecuador.
🙂
Hi John (NOT TIM),
I loved your post. I have yet to write mine as I have been focused (as you have been) on our NPOs 215 pages and 51,000 words, I wonder if I have said anything worth reading, sigh.
But I digress, Letting people be wrong, walking away. Letting my actions speak. Remembering “words whisper, actions THUNDER! (old army adage).”
Idealogue or good and faithful servant.
Letting the Holy Spirit convict, letting my words reflect humility….
All these tidbits floated around my brain when I read your post.
Pastor Stu Cocanaugher (graduate) redirected me when I sought to have hard conversations with churches about immigration. Instead, he asked me to empower them.
Wow, I got a lot of mileage doing that (rather than spending effort on confronting).
215 and counting.
Shalom
I feel you on the pressure to write a massive amount for our NPO. May God give you, nay, US, strength, clarity, wisdom and patience.
Blessings!
Hi John,
I enjoyed your post. You made me laugh too! As I was reading I thought Boghossian might be an ideologue as well. I wonder if he thinks that of himself. I imagine we all are on some level and it’s best to be honest about it. If you were to have a conversation with him (or Bill Mahr), what question would you want to ask?
I think we should all be more honest about who and what we are, want to be, wish we were, struggling to become, etc.
Humility.
Question I would ask: What if you’re wrong?”
Hello from Ecuador.
Blessings to you Jenny!
Hi John,
This is a great post and you have given me some things to think about and also go back and read, again.
These two points are on point:
• Don’t interrupt or treat people rudely (pg. 40). Be civil. This book should be required reading for every current and future election cycle.
• While people think they are having arguments about substance, they’re often just disagreements about the meanings of words (pg. 41). That’s spot on.
Yes and Yes!
“but honestly, I don’t want to debate. I don’t need to win. He doesn’t have to lose.” How much further we all would be in our lives if we could all just approach conversations this way! Thanks John.