I Have No Idea What He Just Said…
During Dr. Jordan Peterson’s recent U.S. tour, he stopped in Oklahoma. Several people I know bought tickets to attend. After it ended, I heard them say, “I have no idea what he just said, but he sounds like he knows what he’s talking about.” Jordan Peterson’s books and podcasts are indeed tough to follow, and honestly, I was not thrilled to have his book, Maps of Meaning, on the reading list this semester. However, after several failed attempts to dig in, I finally found a place to latch on through his musings about things that challenged him as a young adult. Those topics piqued a deep and lasting curiosity about people and social structures. A curiosity that resonated with me. He began studying belief systems and the power they hold to transform individuals or populations, mythology and how it shapes culture and religion, and the tension between systems of order and disorder, which are sometimes described as known vs. unknown or even good vs. evil.
As a young Socialist, an ideology he held only temporarily, Peterson felt that economic injustice was at the root of all evil. This led him to ponder deeper questions about the interplay between money and the human condition such as “How was it possible for people to act the way the Nazis had during World War II? How can apparently normal people do such awful things to other humans?”[1] It also sparked a journey of self-reflection, referencing psychotherapist Carl Jung, who “Formulated the concept of persona: the mask that ‘feigned individuality.”[2]
The Essence of Maps
Jordan Peterson’s personal introspection played a significant role in his use of “maps” as an analogy for finding and articulating the meaning of life, including how people navigate hardship. He found value in Joseph Campbell’s archetypes and monomyth, which allowed him to formulate and narrate an ideology largely rooted in individual responsibility, self-reliance, and personal transformation.
My thoughts diverge from Peterson’s views at this intersection of individuality or, as Patrick Deneen would say, liberation. Deneen contends, and I concur, that the focus on individualism has led to isolationism, fracturing critical societal and interpersonal bonds. Not knowing one another has caused a greater sense of fear, distrust, and anxiety, significantly impacting people, particularly teenagers, many of whom lack the resilience and hope found in faith.
While Peterson admits respect for the moral values of Christianity, he does not subscribe to any religion, though his wife does. His philosophy is unaligned with the Biblical principles that I support, which emphasize interdependence and communal living. God designed mankind to live in harmony with one another. In 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Paul compares the church to the various parts of the human body, which serves as a metaphor. It is a fact that the community is constructed by the collection of unique gifts and talents of its members, who work together for the greater good of the Kingdom.
I found his discussion in a later chapter about “hostile brothers” fascinating. Here, he offers the examples of equal but opposite forces in Cain and Able or Christ and Satan – “two eternal individual tendencies, twin ‘sons of God,’ heroic and adversarial or order and chaos. Hostility is their nature! What does that say about people, in particular Christians? Reflecting on his earlier question about the atrocities of the Holocaust, he believes a consequence of humanity is the “voluntary willingness to do what is known to be wrong, despite the capacity to understand and avoid such action.” This trait is most aligned with what Christians call the sinful nature of humans. For Peterson, personal growth happens when you challenge the ideas of order and chaos head-on.
However, he acknowledges there is always an information gap. With the evolution of our societies and within ourselves, there is always more to learn, which requires a posture of humility. He goes on to say, “Those who, by contrast, accept the scientific perspective…forget that an impassable gulf currently divides what is from what should be.”[3] In this argument, he seems to be suggesting that science and rational thinking are limited and miss the existence of a higher power. What is is an earthly kingdom that belongs to the fallen angel. What should be is life at the right hand of Jesus.
Despite the rise of information platforms, there will always be more unknown to us than what is known. Still, I appreciate the author’s curiosity that led him to analyze his own thoughts and ideas. Although he may cover this elsewhere, I wish he would have included more insight on the broader cultural, social, and political contexts. These powerful forces can become slippery slopes that lead people into confirmation bias as they parrot others’ ideas- something he discovered himself doing as a young Socialist. It is why he later rejected the trait and the ideology, calling it evil.
Conclusion
What was initially a daunting and challenging read has turned out to be a rather insightful resource. I want to spend more time on the Maps of Meaning. There are many things I have come to appreciate about Peterson’s rather lengthy journey of self-actualization. Most of all, I celebrate his deep sense of curiosity and willingness to dig into the nuances of beliefs and other forces that shape the world around us. I look forward to revisiting his work soon to enhance my toolbox of resources to deploy at opportune times.
[1] Peterson, Jordan B. Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief. New York: Routledge, 1999. P.xii
[2] Jung, C. G., Marie-Louise von Franz, Joseph L. Henderson, Jolande Jacobi, and Aniela Jaffé. Man and His Symbols. 2023 Bantam Books trade paperback edition. New York: Bantam Books, 2023.
[3] Peterson, Jordan B. Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief. New York: Routledge, 1999 P.1.
[4] Ibid. P.319
About the Author
Jennifer Eckert
Operations and fundraising director, people connector, believer in second chances, fights poverty, supports justice reform, lives a life integrated with Matthew 25.13 responses to “I Have No Idea What He Just Said…”
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Jennifer,
So glad you were able to find some enjoyment in his book. You now incorporate Christ into your maps of meaning, which requires faith and doesn’t always make sense. Thinking back to the days before you became a Christian, what are some of the ways that you made meaning out of the world and its injustices?
Thank you for your question, Jeff. As a child and young adult (all pre-Christian years), making sense of an unjust world was tough. It still is today!
I navigated waves of grief through those years as multiple family members died by suicide, which destroyed relationships among the remaining family members. I found hospitality and comfort in the Black community (my secondary school was about 50/50 Black/White) but was deeply chided by my brother and the White community. I responded as a sarcastic and strong-headed teenager by simply digging my heels in with a deeper rebellion and kept moving forward.
I never could make sense of the deaths and still struggle even now as a Christian. However, in hindsight, I can see that Christ has always filled me with a sense of hope and resilience, even before I knew who He was. It was the tiny mustard seed that He planted, which carried my soul through the worst storms and now allows me to walk beside others in their seasons of hardship.
Hi Jennifer, I couldn’t help but laugh when I read your title, “I have no idea what he just said.” I had a similar reaction—your friend captured it perfectly. That said, I resonate with Peterson’s point that personal growth often comes from engaging directly with the tension between order and chaos. Building on Jeff’s question, I’m curious: how has that kind of growth—wrestling with those tensions—taken shape for you since becoming a believer? Or, if you prefer, how has it unfolded during your time in the doctoral program?
Hi friend, please forgive me but I think the best answer to your question is the one I just wrote in response to Jeff’s question. I’m going to paste it.
As a child and young adult (all pre-Christian years), making sense of an unjust world was tough. It still is today!
I navigated waves of grief through those years as multiple family members died by suicide, which destroyed relationships among the remaining family members. I found hospitality and comfort in the Black community (my secondary school was about 50/50 Black/White) but was deeply chided by my brother and the White community. I responded as a sarcastic and strong-headed teenager by simply digging my heels in with a deeper rebellion and kept moving forward.
I never could make sense of the deaths and still struggle even now as a Christian. However, in hindsight, I can see that Christ has always filled me with a sense of hope and resilience, even before I knew who He was. It was the tiny mustard seed that He planted, which carried my soul through the worst storms and now allows me to walk beside others in their seasons of hardship.
Hi Jennifer, I too felt your frustration when I started reading this week. Glad you found some valuable insights. You mentioned Peterson’s discussion of curiosity. May I ask, what makes draws your curiousity?
Thank you, Diane. People who are generally marginalized by the masses make me curious. Maybe it is rooted in me wanting to understand why they are living in the fray, or rather why others are ostricizing them. I have always been more interested (and felt more comfortable) in the “out” crowd than the “in” group.
When I lean in to learn more, I most often find that they are quite beautiful and misunderstood. I see that in prisoners and other groups all the time. (Disclaimer: not to excuse anyone’s wrongdoing).
Hi Jennifer, I also dug into his work on Cain and Abel and found it fascinating how he pulled out the essence of shared human experience from this story – we experience difficulty or failure (Cain’s sacrifice was insufficient) and we have a choice to be courageous and face this failure with growth, or we can reject it and end up with bitterness and destruction. This really resonated with me. Are there parts of Cain and Abel’s story that resonates with you?
Thanks, Christy. Yes! I think about Cain and Able as well as Jacob and Esau. Both stories contain themes about issues that we still deal with today: jealousy, deception/manipulation, blessings vs. curses, favorites (sibling rivalry), and serious consequences.
I think about the pain these things cause that can last for generations.
Hi Jennifer, Well done digging deep and finding ways to resonate with Peterson. How do you see Peterson’s perspective that “personal growth happens when you challenge the ideas of order and chaos head-on,” relate to a Christian’s journey of becoming Christ-like?
When he talks about confronting order and chaos head-on, I think about Jonathan Haidt’s book Anxious Generation. You may recall that Haidt feels we need to let kids learn consequences in a healthy manner through play. Otherwise, they are ill-equipped to handle the hardships of life as adults.
The Bible clearly tells us to take up our cross and follow Jesus. We are foreigners in this fallen land, and there will be hardship, but we should not be afraid. Part of the Christian mandate is to remain faithful in the valleys because it causes us to rely more on Christ and less on ourselves. It develops endurance, character, and a sense of hope, which I think is the ingredient that sets Christians apart from non-Christians.
Jennifer, you highlight the contrast between Peterson’s focus on individualism and the biblical vision of interdependence in the body of Christ. This topic has appeared frequently when researching my NPO. I would appreciate your perspective on how the church can better embody that communal vision today, especially in a culture that prizes self-reliance.
What a great question, Chad. Our culture definitely embraces self-reliance. A couple of incomplete thoughts come to mind.
Perhaps some answers can be found by studying Amish communities across the U.S. While their beliefs have many strengths and consequences, you cannot argue how communal they are and have remained for generations.
Communal support can also be found in pockets when churches help people struggling with issues such as hunger and homelessness. So often, individuals who find themselves in such valleys cannot pull themselves up by the bootstraps because there are no straps to be had. They are forced to rely on help from others, which, by default, forces communal interactions. This lack of independence also comes with embarrassment, shame, and disempowerment, and these social services are also temporary band-aid fixes.
My state has coined a phrase, “the Oklahoma Standard,” because following a disaster (tornadoes, the OKC bombing), the whole world seemed to come out to help. Unfortunately, that care and concern was temporary (always is). We are creatures of habit and eventually return to the old individualistic ways.
The Amish are the only group that has retained its beliefs and actions of communalism.
HI Jennifer, thanks for your interaction with Jordan Peterson. I appreciate you highlighting the values of individualism and interdependence. It seems that there is a healthy tension here, where one can actually help strengthen the other. How might one encourage individual responsibility and at the same time encourage interdependence?