The Psychodrama Inside My Brain
Reading two books back-to-back, one by a family therapist and one by a psychologist has been a surprisingly challenging experience. On the one hand, because I work in the field of counseling the general concepts are not new. On the other hand, what is being discussed feels foreign to me. The confusion is that both Kahneman and Friedman are using terms that I am familiar with yet have different nuances of meaning when applied to leadership and thinking processes. I pulled out, How to Read a Book, By Mortimer Adler and reviewed Rule #5, for coming to terms with the author.[1] I needed this review. My head still hurts after struggling with Friedman’s understanding of the term empathy as applied to leadership.
Psychodrama: In Thinking Fast and Slow, Kahneman likens his book to a psychodrama between the two characters he calls System 1 and System 2. The two systems are two different modes of thinking. System 1 is fast, automatic, intuitive, emotional, involuntary, and heuristic. System 2 is slow, deliberate, effortful, logical, and controlled.[2] Psychodrama is an interesting term to use when considering the connections between these two systems of thought. Here is the American Psychological Association’s definition: “A method of psychotherapy in which clients enact their concerns to achieve new insight about themselves and others. Its central premise is that spontaneity and creativity are crucial for the balanced, integrated personality and that humans are all improvising actors on the stage of life. Clients may role play in a variety of scenes either lived or imagined.”[3] For Kahneman, embracing a balanced and integrated way of thinking seems to be a theme of his book. I am curious how “spontaneity and creativity” might aid in my engagement with the two systems. I can imagine these two systems as characters dialoguing with one another, challenging each other, and drawing the best insights out of the other.
Kahneman has used the term psychodrama to describe the process of navigating both systems of thinking when observing a situation and taking in new information, which then moves one to new understanding, and therefore different judgments and choices. If his book is about helping us sort out how to use both thinking systems appropriately, I am guessing there are more insights and a bit of drama as I hold the tension between these two opposing characters at work in my brain. The push, pull, and pause of processing information and engaging with threshold spaces makes more sense. Both systems are needed. Referencing emotions Friedman concurs, that the brain does not compartmentalize data and emotional processes, “Emotions do not simply modify our thinking, reasoning, or decision-making processes, they are part and parcel of the process of reasoning.”[4] However…
Biases and Cognitive Distortions: I must become aware of my own biases of feelings, impressions, and intuitive beliefs. Recognizing my thoughts may not be as accurate as I like to believe and influenced by things outside my awareness is uncomfortable. Kahneman’s psychodrama analogy is linked to critical thinking and presents a challenge to think less egocentrically. Richard Paul and Linda Elder, in The Miniature Guide to Critical Thinking, highlighted how we naturally believe in our intuitive perceptions and use self-centered psychological standards rather than intellectual standards when determining what information to believe or reject. Examining the why of believing something is an important consideration in the context of leadership and faith as indicated by the potential belief statements below.
“It’s true because I believe it.”
“It’s true because we believe it.”
“It’s true because I want to believe it.”
“It’s true because I have always believed it.”
“It’s true because it is in my best interest to believe it.”[5]
Thinking errors or cognitive distortions are defined as, “…faulty or inaccurate thinking, perception, or belief. An example is overgeneralization. Cognitive distortion is a normal psychological process that can occur in all people to a greater or lesser extent.”[6] Kahneman agrees, “The focus on error does not denigrate human intelligence,”[7] As Kahneman’s book focuses on “biases of intuition” one of his goals for readers is to help us identify and understand errors of judgement and choice in others and in self.[8] According to Friedman, if I am well differentiated then I am responsible for my own thinking. In conversation with others, if I am truly listening to understand, these two systems can work together to keep me out of cognitive traps and self-differentiated in my leadership roles. The insights Kahneman is offering integrate well with Friedman’s thoughts on differentiation and non-anxious presence.
I have been thinking about my NPO for at least 10 years. It started with intuition, a gut feeling, an emotional, and empathetic response to the ministry leaders I care about and who might benefit from a listening ear and safe places to share authentically. System 1 was at work in this early process. System 2 kicked into gear with my discovery workshop, interviews, and surveys. As I research and write my Topic Expertise Essay a new level of understanding is emerging which is most definitely slow, effortful, and hopefully more logical. I wouldn’t be here without System 1. I am noticing when system 1 needs to take a back seat and be on alert for over-generalizations and other thinking errors. Being curious and asking questions is System 2 thinking. Moving forward, I want to be more cognizant of what hinders and what supports my thinking process.
[1] Mortimer Jerome Adler and Charles Van Doren, How to Read a Book, Rev. and Updated Ed (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1972) 98.
[2] Daniel Kahneman, Thinking Fast and Slow, (New York, NY: Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 2013), 20-21.
[3] “Psychodrama” https://dictionary.apa.org/psychodrama, Accessed March 1, 2023.
[4] Edwin H. Friedman, Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix. Revised Ed. (New York, NY: Church Publishing, 2017), 125.
[5] Richard Paul and Elder, Linda, The Miniature Guide to Critical Thinking. (London, UK: Rowan & Littlefield, 2020), 39.
[6] “Cognitive Distortions” https://dictionary.apa.org/cognitive-distortion, Accessed March 1, 2023.
[7] Kahneman, Daniel. Thinking Slow and Fast, 4.
[8] Ibid., 3-4.
About the Author
Jenny Dooley
Jenny served as a missionary in Southeast Asia for 28 years. She currently resides in Gig Harbor, Washington, where she works as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and Certified Spiritual Director in private practice with her husband, Eric. Jenny loves to listen and behold the image of God in others. She enjoys traveling, reading, and spending time with her family which include 5 amazing adult children, 3 awesome sons-in-law, a beautiful daughter-in-law, and 8 delightful grandchildren.19 responses to “The Psychodrama Inside My Brain”
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Your paragraph about thinking errors and cognitive distortions made me think of two books. On Being Wrong by Kathryn Schulz addresses many similar cognitive fallacies (in a bit more accessible way, in my opinion, than Kahneman presents his information). The overall takeaway was similar – our brains are designed for efficiency and therefore are made to jump to conclusions. Most of the time that’s fine, but we do occasionally have to pump the brakes and double-check our conclusions.
The second book I thought of is one I’m reading for my NPO research and I’m only half-way through. It’s How Emotions are Made by Lisa Barrett. Her premise is that emotions are just one more example of our brains using input and jumping to conclusions. For example, “I feel ‘butterflies in my stomach’ because I’m nervous about giving a big presentation today.” But sometimes those conclusions are wrong (just like Schulz and Kahneman talk about). Maybe that weird feeling in my stomach is actually because I’m coming down with the flu. Then she talks about why we are responsible for our own actions and emotions because we can actually work at rewiring those connections. If you haven’t read her work, you might find it helpful.
Hi Kim, I am noticing others are mentioning Kathryn Schulz’s book as well. I need to take another look at it! Our brains are amazing. I got curious while thinking about your response and found this fascinating video.
https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/brain-architecture/
Our brains are capable of so many neurological connections and we are not even aware of it most of the time.
The book by Lisa Barrett sounds interesting. Our emotions can certainly lead us astray and can be confusing to work through. It all starts in the brain but we feel them in our bodies often before we have a chance to sort out what they are trying to tell us.
System 2 really does help us check out those automatic connections and slow down our brains so we can more accurately sort out the messages our emotions are trying to tell us. Thanks for the book recommendations!
Jenny, in your work as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and Certified Spiritual Director, at this point in your career, I wonder how often you are pulling from System 1 or System 2 ways of thinking. I am curious how you process intuitive decision-making, or maybe how you tell others — maybe those who have not read Paul/Elder — to regulate intuitive responses/decisions/assessments, especially those who (perhaps?) receive regular feedback from others telling them “You are an intuitive leader.” Also, do you think one role (either the counseling or the spiritual directing) tends to lean more on a particular system (1 or 2) than the other? In both of your roles, you are observing things and taking in new information and are navigating how you are going to respond. That being said, the two roles of counseling and spiritual direction can be quite different. Thank you for your post!
Hi Travis,
Thank you for your response and your questions. I would say that I pull from both systems as a mental health counselor. When Kahneman wrote about the a master chess player walking by two players and calling out the next move it reminded me that due to a very specific certification I hold it doesn’t take me very long to understand what is going on with a client in a very short amount of time. Working through System 2 thinking for so long my understanding of the problem has become faster and my responses more intuitive. I wish that was the case in every situation!
I deal with a lot of emotional reactivity (in my clients). Non-anxious presence must be maintained even when my anxiety is getting triggered. In those situations it almost feels like System 1 and 2 are at work together. I need to think more about that. I can tell you that the prefrontal cortex of a counselor who is actively listening (which means I am not actively searching for my response) is taking in a lot of information. It takes a lot of practice to notice what is most important to respond to and when to do so. I am still learning!
Spiritual direction is different and there is some overlap. My spiritual direction training has enhanced my clinical work through deeper and slower listening and helps me pause more. It’s kind of a weird mix because the process is slow, and thoughtful like in System 2. But, there again are the intuitive and emotional judgements that have been honed over time.
I would say that in both roles my use of either system depends on what the client is bringing to the session and how they are affectively presenting. I need both systems to be healthy and operating well together. That’s the goal. I am glad I have others to talk through stuck places and check my own thinking.
Hi Jenney, This is brilliant.
I am came to a place that S1 to S2 is a NORMAL part of our thinking process. Deuteronomy 10:18, orphans, widows and the alien amongst us, is the S1 motivation for my NPO. S2 has broadened that motivation into something concrete that will help the integration process. It is still a work in progress, but my growing network in connecting with others who are in that S1 space about immigration, is developing into a real wave of action. We are S2ing it into some thing beneficial for both refugee and church supporters.
Tremendous and well articulated post…Shalom..Russ
I forgot something. C.S. Lewis’ Dignity of Causality. Pray, unceasingly (1 Thessalonians 5:17) is Paul’s reminder to bring every facet of our lives to Christ. Jennifer Vernam found the number 35,000 decisions are made by humans daily. While System 1 and 2 thinkers have strengths and weaknesses to contend with, imagine if we prayed continuously so that our decisions were guided by the Holy Spirit, all 35,000 of them.
I love this, Russell! Breath prayer is becoming a helpful in the moment practice for me.
Thank Jenny. Your description of your interaction with your NPO–from system 1 to system 2–is helpfully putting words to my own experience. My system 1 was noticing some things in my own denomination and I was pretty confident in my poorly-worded NPO! It was poorly-worded, in part, because I was having to engage more substantively with system 2: Who am I addressing? What precisely is the problem? Is there more than one cause? As it turns out, it’s easy to see/recognize the general problem but more difficult to critically think our way to a more accurate diagnosis! In the process….my system 1 assumptions have had to change a bit and, though somewhat uncomfortable at times, I’m glad the two systems can serve each other well in the Doctoral journey.
Hi Scott,
You wrote, “As it turns out, it’s easy to see/recognize the general problem but more difficult to critically think our way to a more accurate diagnosis!” Isn’t that the truth! The entire reason I am in this doctoral program was for the scaffolding and new learning to determine if what I was seeing was correct and if so what to do about it. I didn’t want to waste my time solving a problem that wasn’t a problem or one that no one wanted to address. I’m so grateful for the opportunity to research the topic formally and collaborate with others looking at similar NPO’s.
This week our church is focusing on curiosity and how being curious in the seemingly small, insignificant things can bring about lessons about the big things. Like you said, being curious requires us to slow down and move to System 2 which is probably why we often rely on our biases (heuristics) rather than choosing to ask questions, dive deeper, and get curious.
I love Ted Lasso and am forever grateful to that show for quoting Walt Whitman and reminding us to “Be curious not judgmental” https://youtu.be/i_FofLSherM
Hi Kally, I love that clip! Now I wish I had Apple TV.
Another one of my favorite quotes about curiosity is: “Don’t be furious. Get curious!” Although I have no idea where it originated. A curious posture helps me maintain a non-anxious presence. Russell and I were talking this morning. Both of us watched video interviews with Daniel Kahneman and were struck not only by his intelligence but by his calm, non-anxious presence. The curiosity of System 2 thinking can calm down the unhelpful quick and reactionary thinking and responses of System 1. Thanks for sharing the video!
Jenny,
I appreciate how you highlighted the painful process of recognizing that our thoughts may need an accuracy check. I often think in this process the assumption is made that having a bias is wrong. Therefore people want to “throw” out the bias without critically thinking about the origin (as you mentioned, the “why”) of the bias, doing a deeper dive into the why.
Hi Cathy, It’s funny… in counseling we are taught not to ask why. It puts people on the defensive. I may have picked up on this new thought from Friedman, (my lazy thinking and my busy day are preventing my from looking it up) but it seems to me that not asking why (or at least well-worded open-ended questions without the why) we are robbing ourselves and others of taking responsibility for our own thoughts and feelings. I think the key is allowing System 2 to ask the why (from a calm non-reactive state) otherwise it just won’t be heard and keeps us stuck in our own biases and thinking errors. I’m taking the risk to ask myself why even when it feels a bit risky.
Hi, Jenny, Your last thought “Moving forward, I want to be more cognizant of what hinders and what supports my thinking process” is a powerful reminder to be aware of what does derail us in our thinking. It seems much more prounouned now that we have so much at stake in this doctoral program, but I often get lazy when not as much is at stake. There is so much more written on how we think than I have not yet delved in to but am gleaning so much through these readings. However, I also wonder how to be aware of, as Kahneman mentions “threatened overload” from “limited capacity” (p. 35). How do you handle the overload in this season that can threaten to shut down System 2 in its effectiveness?
Hi Esther,
I am working to establish new rhythms, but it hasn’t been easy. Basic things like going to bed early, taking lots of breaks, and scheduling set tasks for specific days is a big help. Real life happens right along side all these new academic rhythms. Tending to my emotions, my spiritual life, and my body help. Boundaries is a big one. I am not taking on new clients or new ministry responsibilities. I do believe it is important to give System 2 a rest and find joy in play and the great outdoors. Nature is healing. I will be on vacation a week from today!
Jenny, two things I really love on your insights:
1. That it is difficult to compartmentalize our thoughts, our feelings and thoughts influence each other and are each other. I love that you recognize that it was s1 thinking that got you to your NPO and how your s2 is helping to sort out biased thinking. What insight have you found in this research semester that is most surprising you?
2. I appreciate as a therapist you have to engage all of your thinking and feeling. What sort of self-awareness practices do you do as you actively listen to your clients? I often find I have to actively practice this when listening and being present to my patients and would love to see what you do. Also, have you found yourself in the middle of a session with a personal insight of your own bias? Meaning after all these years of therapy, do you have your own Aha moments when you are with your clients?
Hi Jana,
Thank you for the questions.
Q1: One surprising thing that I discovered with my research is that I am recognizing some people I have met during my time in Asia who have contributed academically to my topic. I will likely be contacting at least one of them as I move forward with my research.
Q2: I practice pausing a lot. W.A.I.T Why am I talking. If I am doing my job well I am not talking very much. Some days all I notice is when I wasn’t listening well:(
I have my own aha moments while listening all the time! I have to table it and stay focused, but if it is a true aha moment I will remember and tend to it later. There are some things my clients have said that have never left me, in a good way.
Hi Jenny!
I am greatly helped to understand Kahneman’s writing when I read your writing. Thank you very much.
In relation to the NPO topic that you have been preparing for 10 years, to what extent do you see the role of S1 and S2 helping you to formulate the topic?
Hi Dinka,
Thank you for the question! It helps me sort out how I am thinking. Though system 1 seems to be fast I can’t say that I am much of a fast thinker but my judgements seem to be. I intuitively and emotionally picked up on the need that my NPO is based on because of my own experiences and saw others struggling. System 2 probably kept me from acting on it but because I had some things to work through for myself. My reading and training for quite some time now has been on the topics related to my NPO. Some of that learning has become System 1 thinking, but there are places where System 1 can get in the way or lead me astray. Yesterday, I was doing some research and System 1 took me on quite a rabbit trail, it was interesting to review some statistical information about ASEAN nations, but off topic and unnecessary for my purposes. Then System 2 came to my aid, slowed me down and got me back on the right path and found information that was actually helpful. After that System 1 led to a quick decision to get Chinese food for dinner. Good System 1 thinking in my opinion! I get simultaneously teary and energized every time I walk into an Asian restaurant.