Keep On Moving
No, Really. The title is for you. Don’t stop here, keep on moving to a blog with something to say. The whole thing was just a struggle this week. Thoughts are disjointed and unclear. For some reason, though I usually really enjoy writing, it is just not working this week. I encourage you to skip over this blog and check out the rest of the cohort this time.
I have read significant portions of ‘The Leadership Mystique’ by Manfred Kets De Vries and found the book interesting, challenging and thought provoking. But, in reading around the text I found more that captured and resonated with me on a personal level. I feel sufficiently comfortable with all of you to unpack some of the thoughts that prevailed while reading this book. In addition, I stumbled across an interview with the author regarding his assumptions about leadership and the psychological frailties that are part of their character. In this interview he stipulates that “irrationality is integral to human nature”and therefore it is prone to be realized in leaders as well as followers.[1] It was this interview, in Harvard Business Review, that resonated with me. I apologize in advance if it’s too much information for you all and like Jean did last week warn you that you may not want to continue.
As I hinted at in our chat the other day I come from a pretty dysfunctional family. My father was (and still is) incredibly narcissistic and exhibited many of the irrational characteristics described by De Vries both in the book and the interview that I came across. (Characteristics, I might add that De Vries suggests are necessary in leaders. He states; “Leaders need a healthy dose of narcissism in order to survive. It’s the engine that drives leadership. Assertiveness, self-confidence, tenacity, and creativity just can’t exist without it.”)[2] Yet, he was an incredible leader, a Christian pastor who developed a strong following, and demonstrated qualities such as charisma, intelligence, strong communication, vision, decisiveness, etc.
In the Harvard Business Review with De Vries he says the following all of which resonates with my experience of my father: “I found [leaders] often had experienced deprivation of some kind early in life.” Check “They work to be independent. It is their way of having more control over a world they often perceive (given their early experiences) as uncontrollable.” Check “The trouble is that once they’ve proved they’re successful, they can’t get off the treadmill. All they know how to do is work.” Check “In the meantime, their personal relationships have become a mess.” Check “So they feel stuck and bored. Unfortunately, in business [or in church leadership] you are not allowed to show pain. So, to liven himself up a bit, the [leader] might find a new wife or he might try to pull off some really big, aggressive deal. Now that provides some excitement. Mergers and marriages both help to mask a [leader’s] psychic pain.”[3] Check
So, is there application of this work to the church context. Without a doubt. While most of my blogs deal directly with issues of emerging generations it is pertinent here to consider the pastoral leadership of churches. What roles do we encourage them to play to be ‘successful’ that may be contributing to irrationality and dysfunction? In the drive to serve a church full of broken individuals whose particular crises are ‘urgent’ it is frequently difficult for pastors to take time for their own internal development. “Many executives [read pastors] don’t pay much attention to their inner world…It’s rarely a conscious avoidance, but it’s an avoidance nonetheless.”[4] In addition, there is often an unconscious assumption that displays of vulnerability or weakness will raise doubts in the minds of the congregation about the suitability of the pastor’s leadership.
As attempts are made to make the church more attractive, retain membership, and utilize business models for organizational purposes pastors frequently find themselves in the role of a CEO, often a position at odds with their initial calling. I saw this in my own pastor father and reflect much of it myself. If De Vries has anything to offer the church than I believe it is in his recognition that the clinical paradigm has much to contribute to organizational structure and understanding of leadership within that structure. This is as important for the church as it might be for the corporate world. If we are to be a healthy organization and encourage the health of our leaders/pastors, application of the insights provided by De Vries would seem beneficial.
Here is the quote that will remain with me. “When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.”[5] That is what I am doing with this blog.
Mike drop – Sorry if you endured. This sucked!!
[1]Coutu, Diane. “Putting Leaders on the Couch.” Harvard Business Review. August 01, 2014. Accessed November 16, 2018. https://hbr.org/2004/01/putting-leaders-on-the-couch.
[2]Coutu, Diane. “Putting Leaders on the Couch.” Harvard Business Review. August 01, 2014. Accessed November 16, 2018. https://hbr.org/2004/01/putting-leaders-on-the-couch.
[3]Coutu, Diane. “Putting Leaders on the Couch.” Harvard Business Review. August 01, 2014. Accessed November 16, 2018. https://hbr.org/2004/01/putting-leaders-on-the-couch.
[4]Kets De Vries, Manfred. The Leadership Mystique: Leading Behavior in the Human Enterprise. Harlow, England: Prentice Hall/Financial Times, 2006. P. 46
[5]Ibid p. 1
About the Author
Dan Kreiss
Former director of the Youth Ministry program at King University in Bristol, TN and Dean of the School of Missions. I have worked in youth ministry my entire life most of that time in New Zealand before becoming faculty at King. I love helping people recognize themselves as children of God and helping them engage with the world in all its diversity. I am particularly passionate about encouraging the church to reflect the diversity found in their surrounding community in regard to age, gender, ethnicity, education, economic status, etc. I am a husband, father of 4, graduate of Emmanuel Christian Seminary, an avid cyclist and fly-fisherman still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.10 responses to “Keep On Moving”
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Mic drop! Love it. And your initial paragraph did nothing but make me want to voraciously read your post!! So I kept reading…
I appreciate your vulnerability and reflection on your own family situation. The tendency we have in the West to equate pastor with CEO is unfortunate, and I wish we held up a different model. I have found the greatest personal benefit by those pastors who didn’t act like CEOs but actually pastored me with faithful presence through a dark valley.
I read it, and I’m not sorry. (We all have weeks like this, and I do recognize that this is not you regular level of engagement and articulation, but it was still a worthy read because it helps me to know you better.)
Thanks for being vulnerable. How has your experience made you more prone towards self-reflection?
Hi Dan,
Instantly after starting your Blog I thought to the song by Toby Mac, MOVE.
Move, keep walkin’ soldier keep movin’ on
Move, keep walkin’ until the mornin’ comes
Move, keep walkin’ soldier keep movin’ on
And lift your head, it ain’t over yet, ain’t over yet
I found myself watching the you tube video and thinking of you…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX1G71WK-FA
Sorry I dissed you in my Blog this week (grin).
Happy Thanksgiving my Brother. MOVE
I saw the comment on my fly-fishing. Can’t wait to get out with you sometime to get some lessons on the Western way.
Thanks too for the encouragement. Honestly it is you and the others in the cohort that have kept me even loosely connected and attempting to stay the course.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving brother.
Dan,
Sorry, I needed one more comment to finish, so I had to stick with you brother. Besides, we do not leave anyone behind. That is kind of a creed you know, “no Elite-8 person left behind.”
If I hear you right, and understand de Vries, Narcissism is both good and evil, healthy and un-healthy, depending on how the person interacts with it. Maybe, maybe not I think to myself?
I think God wires us with desire, drive, and a passion to succeed. Maybe narcissism is part of that, but I only know that most of the narcissism I have observed in my life and others is always “dangerous for your health.”
Dear friend, ministry is messy, and you are doing a fantastic job of doing the faith thing, even when you are not sure, or maybe even resent it. God’s grace is sufficient and I’m pretty sure He would say “you are OK, I have your back.” I think sometimes we just have to just armor up and stand firm, not really being sure, but believing God is bigger than our problems, and just wait and see where He leads us.
P.S. are you a horse rider? I’ve had them flip on me, roll on me, kick me, and stomp on me. So, when you talked about dismounting a dead horse, I could see the imagery for sure!
Stand firm,
M. Webb
Mike,
Your forthrightness and unflinching reliance on God and the armor provided for you sustain me often. I admire your fortitude and your consistent willingness to stay the course. I am trying to stand firm but often fail to put on the full armor as you suggest.
Thanks for your constant example and encouragement.
Read to the end. ?
Thanks for sharing. This book had moments of wow that’s really good and then a lot of fluff. Mystique is even such a weird word
Dan,
Thanks for your post– (except for the self-deprecating parts). I was interested in your connecting the portion around narcissism to your own family dynamics and Dad, etc. There is a real paradox there, as you pointed out from the reading, narcissistic characteristics “that De Vries suggests are necessary in leaders.” I won’t psycho-analyze you from a far, but I wonder if your own self-deprecation style is also tied up with your Father’s over-doing it in terms of self-importance/self-confidence. Just know that when we all read your posts, they are right there, right where they need to be. You’re doing great, so keep on keeping on!
Dave,
I think that my self-effacing manner is a direct result of my upbringing. This cohort has really seen me at my worst as the season of life over the past couple of years has been particularly challenging. I appreciate your encouragement.
Hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving break and get to enjoy some good time with family.
And no, in case you’re wondering, I have not received any leads on jobs but still more rejections. I even applied for a couple of Executive Presbyter positions but nothing so far.
Dan,
I read the whole thing and the whole thing resonated with me. I can feel your pain in your discussion of Kets De Vries necessary narcissism. Your personal openness in discussing your difficulties with you dad and your ministry is remarkable and admirable. I have a tremendous respect for you and just would encourage you to fight on brother.
Jason