Trying to Tame the Chaos Dragon
Written in 1999, Jordan B Peterson’s Maps of Meaning[1] endeavored to help us make sense of the world’s cache of stories and myths that shared similar symbols and meanings. His assertion is that when we pay attention to the patterns we see in the narratives we use, we uncover helpful and necessary truths about ourselves and our communities. Furthermore, the stories we tell ourselves impact how we engage with the world and, how we have been engaged impacts the stories we tell.
An important theme that Peterson impacts is the symbol of the dragon, which represents chaos, or the unexpected. He says:
Involuntary exposure to chaos means accidental encounter with the forces that undermine the known world. The affective consequences of such encounter can be literally overwhelming. It is for this reason that individuals are highly motivated to avoid sudden manifestations of the unknown. And this is why individuals will go to almost any length to ensure that their protective cultural “stories” remain intact.[2]
The idea of common themes surfacing in the stories we tell is not new to us in this cohort. In reading Joseph Campbell’s The Hero with a Thousand Faces,[3] I reflected on the concept of a universal story that is reflected in all the stories we tell.[4] As I mentioned in that post, the Bible Project has also taken a big swing at assessing the concept of the Chaos Dragon.[5] I cannot over-state the value I found from their series on that topic.
While the idea of our stories reflecting our values and worldviews and that those in turn create a culture that is self reinforcing is not where I chose to camp for this post. Instead, I want to reflect a close-to-home story that may prove instructive – for myself.
The Stories We Tell About Our Dragons
My first interaction with Jordan Peterson happened a few years ago, when my oldest son discovered him on YouTube, and he excitedly shared a video or two with me. I actually do not remember what the video was about, but I do remember dismissing him out of hand because of the way he communicated. There was a tone from Peterson that I felt was polarizing, and at that time, I tended to avoid polarizing people (I think I still do). Doing a bit more research on him now, I find that he has been embroiled in various culture war topics[6],[7],[8] so it turns out my “spidey-sense” was on pointe that day.
Now that my son is aware of my reading a book by Peterson for school, he has re-emerged as a topic of discussion. Yesterday, my high school senior sent me a TikTok video titled “We who wrestle with God” along with his comment “seems sound.” On the way out the door to his job, I asked this child/adult: “How would you describe what he is about?” His response: “I think he is trying to inspire young people.”
Interesting.
I will come back to this, but first I want to tell about a helpful video I watched to help me get my head wrapped around Peterson’s content.[9] It was of Peterson delivering the first in a series of college lectures in 2015 for a course that shared the same title as our assigned reading. I was intrigued by the assignment that he gave to the class to start out by writing their own memoir. Understanding the narratives they have already lived out.
I wonder if that is part of the narrative that is attracting my son to Peterson: an encouragement to unpack the dragons he has faced/is facing?
An hour and twenty minutes into this lecture, Peterson reads the class a children’s story about a boy named Billy Bixby and his mother[10], and their varying perceptions of reality.[11] Up until this point in his discussion, Peterson had been calm in his presentation and pragmatic in the content. When he began relating the themes around Billy to true cases of neglect and abuse in children he had encountered, his voice took an emotional tone, and the passion he has on the topic rang through in his voice. The call to understanding the stories we are telling about its impact on ourselves and those around us took an urgent tone- especially the impact on this child from his past. He took a humorous, lighthearted story and effectively drew a thread between parental neglect and abuse and used it to makes sense of the pain we see in society today.
Could my son and other teenagers be responding to Peterson’s willingness to take things that we take for granted and highlight the injustice and pain in our society? Does his message bring a feeling of empowerment or justice in taming the dragon?
There is so much more to unpack with Peterson; his interesting take on Christianity, God, and the nature of reality, his aggressive stances on the culture wars we are facing, and the way that he has taken to writing his tweets in poetry.[12] I also need to think more about how I process the resources my kids share with me, and the discussions we should be having about them. In any case, watching Peterson lecture to the group of students back in 2015 made me for a moment, wish that I could be in his class. I would be listening for themes that would help me with my research.
Questions like:
- How does the framing of my culture impact the way that we talk about the disagreements we have?
- How can our cultural biases on areas of controversy influence how we respond when someone questions our narratives around that issue?
Maybe most importantly:
How do I help others to listen to these diverse views without feeling they are being attacked by a chaos dragon that is too big for them to handle?
_____________________________________
[1] Jordan B. Peterson, Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief (New York: Routledge, 1999).
[2] Peterson, 18.
[3] Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces (Joseph Campbell Foundation, 2020).
[4] “A Secret Rescue Plan,” accessed April 22, 2023, https://blogs.georgefox.edu/dlgp/a-secret-rescue-plan/.
[5] “Chaos Dragon E16: The Only Way to Slay the Dragon,” BibleProject, accessed November 25, 2023, https://bibleproject.com/podcast/only-way-slay-dragon/.
[6] Edith Olmsted, “Jordan Peterson Whines Over ‘Woke’ Report on Drop in Traffic Deaths,” The Daily Beast, March 2, 2024, sec. media, https://www.thedailybeast.com/jordan-peterson-whines-over-woke-report-on-drop-in-new-jersey-traffic-deaths.
[7] “Jordan Peterson Rips into Kamala Harris—”God Help Us”,” Newsweek, January 30, 2024, https://www.newsweek.com/jordan-peterson-kamala-harris-abortion-1865139.
[8] “Jordan Peterson: Bureaucrats will rue the day they tried to shut me up,” National Post, January 17th, 2024, https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-bureaucrats-will-rue-the-day-they-tried-to-shut-me-up
[9] 2015 Maps of Meaning Lecture 01a: Introduction (Part 1), 2015, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tQOlQRp3gQ.
[10] Jack Kent, There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon Story and Pictures, Golden Look-Look Book (New York: Golden Press, 1975).
[11] It turns out, this assessment of a children’s book also informed the writing of a more recent book: Jordan B. Peterson, 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos (Toronto: Random House Canada, 2018).
[12] Miles Klee, “Jordan Peterson Now Tweets in a Strange Poetic Style. We Asked Actual Poets to Review Him,” Rolling Stone (blog), September 2, 2023, https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/jordan-peterson-poem-tweets-review-1234815470/.
About the Author
Jennifer Vernam
11 responses to “Trying to Tame the Chaos Dragon”
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Ahhh…the dragon.
People born in Dragon years usually possess natural courage, tenacity, and intelligence, often displaying enthusiasm and confidence.
I am told that some mom’s encourage their children to only marry those under the sign of the dragon (how silly, everyone knows that Rabbit people are funner). I am under the sign of the Boar (yup, big pig).
I so enjoy reading your posts. You have such a great and intuitive mind.
You asked, “How does the framing of my culture impact the way that we talk about the disagreements we have?”
MY thought? Wow, my culture from a Pacific island paradise, followed by 30 years overseas, living as a soldiers/missionary/teacher has broken any connection as an Asian male (whatever that means).
I have a concentrated focus on religiously biased national documents. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Those words stir in me a national connectedness beyond my skin color and place of origin. Even though when “We the People of the United States,
was penned – chinks were subhuman.
(1892) CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT – Banned Chinese laborers from immigrating for the next 10 years and authorized deportation of unauthorized Chinese immigrants. Any Chinese immigrant who resided in the U.S. as of Nov. 17, 1880, could remain but was barred from naturalizing. The 1892 Geary Act extended this law for an additional 10 years and required that Chinese nationals obtain identification papers.
I find it easy to let go of these historical faux pas. Past is past, what we do now for the kingdom of God is what matters
But I digress, my cultural background is warped and so influences my approach to disagreements that I may have with mainstream Americans.
Again…thanks…I so depend on you “revelational thinkers” in the cohort. I have been swimming in my NPO on refugee resettlement (I presented in Dallas again last week) that I find little bandwidth to dive deep in some of our readings.
I am listening to your reference #5 Chaos Dragon…nice.
Shalom.
Glad you are tuning in to the Bible Project. It’s fantastic!
I am trying to unpack your reflections on your own narrative and how your experiences contribute to you creating a unique story. Are you saying:
1: that you do not include realities like the Chinese Exclusion Impact as informing the context of your narrative,
2: that you narrative was influenced by that history- just in a unique way?
Or
3: something else?
Hi Jennifer,
A good question
I did not know about the Chinese Exclusion act until this program/research. So that means that for 64 years I lived in bliss not knowing about Chinese exclusion.
I am a simple guy…that was then, this is now.
Of course we don’t want to forget history (we don’t want to repeat it!).
My identity was shaped by the U.S. Army (I am green). This subculture took me away from Hawaiian/Asian life. Living overseas for 30 years took me away for mainstream American concerns. Living as a missionary overseas solidified my identity in Christ with others of many backgrounds and colors.
I, in short, am not normal (that shipped sailed a long time ago). Only by coming back to live in the states am I encountering racism broadcasted on TV. I am sure it happens elsewhere, but Free press is a U.S. Thing.
Even more specific, my Christian walk is shaped by Acts 1:8 and Deut 10:18. These are action verses that prioritize my thoughts and resources in Hungary, Slovakia and Ukraine.
I am willing to let others fight their perceived injustices. Current events supports the crisis.
This morning I watched the first sheriff from the “goon squad” be sentenced to 20 years in jail for torturing 2 black males. All six sheriffs pleaded guilty so I imagine that the evidence was OVERWHELMING and that all 6 sheriffs will try to survive in prison for the rest of the lives.
When I see that, I can empathize with members of our cohort continuing to be traumatized from these reports of violence members of their identity group.
Back to the Chinese….I doubt most, if not all, American Chinese know about the Chinese Exclusion act. It is something that does not impact their lives, which most of them perceive is based on their own current merits, education/skills. (ahhh…the model minority).
Hope that answers your question.
Not normal Russ
Hi, Jen,
How incredibly wonderful it is that your readings and NPO are causing dialogue with your family. I often feel that parents shield their kids from working through the varying world views, not to mention their own faith questions, while they are still home so they have parental input and discussion.
You asked: How can our cultural biases on areas of controversy influence how we respond when someone questions our narratives around that issue?
Personally, for me, I believe it often shuts me down because I don’t want to have conflict and I assume a certain negative response. Often that response is not what I expect, especially if I remain curious and engaged.
Esther- you have hit the nail on the head! In planning my upcoming prototype, I am trying to create a group to discuss a difficult topic, and constructing this scenario is trying! There are so many perspectives and angles to consider when approaching this work. To your point, so many people have no motivation to wade into the waters of disagreement. Any advice for me as I charter this conversation?
I’ll take a stab at some advice.
One way to rally people into discussion is to sell the advantages. Not many want conflict. For instance, when we promote coaching in our network of churches, one of the biggest draws is appealing to the desire to matter and be relevant. We don’t say, “You’ve done it wrong and your communication style has to change.” The truth is, they haven’t done it “wrong”. Our changing skeptical society warrants a new approach and our declining churches show it. We have found coaching lends itself to unpacking what really lies beneath the proposed issue at hand. When we teach our first training course in coaching, we stress the 80/20 rule. Listen for 80% of the conversation and for 20% of the conversation use a mix of thought-provoking questions, encouragement, and concise observations.
How could you frame your draw to appeal to someone’s need to be relevant, contribute, and matter?
Thank you for the tip on the Bible Project series on taming the dragon. Gonna dive into that ASAP.
Jen, this is a wonderful post. So helpful in my understanding of Peterson, and I think your son nailed it. He is wanted to inspire a generation. I was struck by that in watching his “message to the christian church” video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7ytLpO7mj0
Who else are your kids into or learning from right now?
Hi Jennifer,
I appreciate this summary statement, “His assertion is that when we pay attention to the patterns we see in the narratives we use, we uncover helpful and necessary truths about ourselves and our communities.” When I think of stories from my childhood, I remember looking for connections and guides for my life. I wasn’t much into mythology, but certain books like Little Women and Jane Eyre helped me navigate themes of suffering, loss, and character development. When I read the bible I am looking through the narratives to see myself, allowing it to read me. The idea of story and myth and biblical truth all ring true in helping me navigate life. I”m intrigued by the childhood story you mentioned Peterson read. I will look it up. Thank you for a thoughtful post!
Yes, his review of that book was the only time I saw him break out of the “objective lecturer” and into an impassioned psychologist… it changed the way that I see his work, and I can understand the influence he has on young people. He is passionate about the injustices that come from what he sees as inappropriate societal worldviews.
Jen,
I appreciate what you are saying and the struggle of engaging these hard topics with our teenage kiddos. I have heard some interesting views from some of my kiddos. I too will be looking into this taming the chaos dragon! Thanks
Wonderful post Jenn, you reinforce the idea that young people, and older folks, are engaging with this guy and its causing many to take faith and tradition much more serious. I am in a group where many are agnostic or athiest and they share his stuff often which has led to some great conversations around a campfire at night. Great reflective questions at the end that got me thinking!