How to Code the Human Soul?
In 2022, I decided to put the third season of my podcast on hold due to my doctoral studies. At present, I don’t imagine I will return to the studio until AFTER May 2025. But when season three happens, now that I’ve read Eve Poole’s Robot Souls: Programming in Humanity[1] I have an idea of what the subject of at least one of the episodes will be.
The podcast is all about HOW (not necessarily about the why or the what, though these do get discussed) things get done across different industries and disciplines. In an episode in season one, I interviewed Bobby John. Once awarded Canada’s Entrepreneur of the Year and one of Canada’s top 40 leaders under the age of 40, Bobby is a brilliant software engineer and founder of the now global company Band of Coders.[2] On the podcast we talked about everything from software engineering and how to build a company, to the NBA and the Toronto Raptors (he and his family now live in Atlanta). There is one thing that he and his talented team of coders do with great expertise – they code. Offline, we talked about eventually recording a second interview. Now, thanks to Poole, I know exactly what we need to talk about: HOW to code humanity’s soul into artificial intelligence. Good luck with that.
In Robot Souls, Poole argues for the inclusion of humanity’s “junk code” with what we program into artificial intelligence. But what is junk code and how does it relate to “soul” and why is this so important for how humans develop future iterations of AI? We need to ask these questions, because Poole’s thesis involves a connection between junk code and soul. Poole writes, “Perhaps Junk code is actually soul; and that it is not our consciousness that makes us special, but our souls.” For Poole, to program this “defining feature of our humanity” into artificial intelligence would be the ethical thing to do.
I’ll come back to “soul” in a minute. First, regarding “junk code, I’ve included Poole’s definition in the notes below.[3] I also asked a good friend who happens to be a Georgia Tech alum and engineer to explain it in simple terms via text. I have his permission to include his text response here: “Junk code refers to code which does not affect the functional behavior of a software program. Junk code can be the unintended result of poor coding, but typically is the intentional insertion of unused code to obfuscate the program for a variety of reasons.”[4] I’ve included his reasons in the notes below.
Soul is a bit more complicated. Theologian Michael Williams writes, “The question of body and soul is a most vexing one from a biblical perspective, but one thing is clear: Scripture envisions human beings as psychosomatic unities, not merely souls stuck in bodies for a time.”[5] In Created in God’s Image, the late Anthony Hoekema described how “the New Testament uses the words ‘soul’ (psyche) or ‘spirit’ (pneuma) to refer to believers as they continue to exist between death and resurrection.”[6] Soul, sometimes accompanying “body” or “spirit” in the Bible, is connected to things like human emotion, sorrow and anguish, love, rejoicing…even salvation, death, or the “spirits” of those who have died.[7]
Poole connects some of these and more, suggesting humanity’s junk code includes emotion, mistake-making, storytelling, sixth sense, uncertainty, agency, free will, and meaning.[8] It’s the imperfections of who we are that speaks to the human experience.
But how would humans code all of this…how would they code soul…into artificial intelligence? Humans are so complex. Made in the image of our Creator, we are relational beings who have an amazing capacity to connect in a relational ecosystem with God, others and self (See Mark 12:30-31), and with the rest of God’s creation as we are called to steward the earth (see Genesis 1:26 – 30). How we relate to others and how we go about creatively cultivating the earth affects our well-being in so many ways. Poole says as much, concluding that “our Junk Code is at the very heart of our humanity, and is crucial for our flourishing.”[9] And it is this very thing – as difficult as it is to define – that humans “have deliberately kept…away from Artificial Intelligence because we did not appreciate its value.”[10]
For the human creation of AI, to responsibly flourish, and for humans to relate to their creation in meaningful ways, then AI needs this junk code = soul programmed into AI’s existence.
An interesting part of Poole’s novel argument is that she approaches our interaction with AI not so much from a position built around ethics or control (though she does deal with these things). Rather, she approaches it this way: “A better question…is to ask what kind of humans we want to be, in relation to AI.”[11] How she unpacks the humans-as-creators narrative runs an oblique path against the typical narratives around our current thinking and current concerns – concerns like, “Oh my gosh, what have we done!”
Poole provides a template to think about what needs to be programmed into AI and why.[12] But it’s the “how” question that we are left with. Poole writes, “Of course it is not currently possible to code for soul or for consciousness, given the lack of agreement on definitions, and on whether either are codifiable categories in any case.”[13]
Nonetheless, the how question would be fascinating to explore. Perhaps the conversation would be focused on the impossibility of this task. Humans-as-image-bearers are indeed quite complex (“fearfully and wonderfully made,” as the psalmist says). Understatement. That podcast conversation would have to include a brilliant coder, or group (band – ha!) of coders, Poole, a theologian, and more. I think I have 17 more months to figure out how to approach this. First, I need to ask Mr. John if he has read Poole’s book.
[1] Eve Poole, Robot Souls: Programming in Humanity, Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, 2024. Kindle version.
[2] See the bio for Bobby Johns here: https://blog.bandofcoders.com/press/bobby-john-ceo-founder-band-of-coders/.
[3] Poole explains junk code this way: “In computer programming, junk code is redundant code that could be deleted or rewritten in shorter syntax without affecting the execution of the program. The code could be redundant because it was never executed (unreachable code), or because when executed it had no effect (dead code). Junk code is deliberately deployed by programmers to obfuscate and discourage copying, and by hackers to cast lures to avoid detection by automatic anti-cheat software. And it seems that we may have dismissed as junk code in our own programming something that is not redundant at all, which is in fact crucial to our core programming. Instead of being dismissed, this should be articulated, nurtured, and protected; but also mined for insight into how this mindset is limiting AI.” (Poole, 120 of 266, Kindle version)
[4] I asked my friend to explain junk code via text on Jan. 5, 2024. His reasons for obfuscating a program with junk code include (his words): “a) avoiding recognition of the core program (ie bypassing security programs attempting to recognize malware) or b) complicating reverse engineering of the code to discourage code or algorithm theft.”
[5] Michael D. Williams, Far as the Curse is Found: The Covenant Story of Redemption. Phillipsburg, NJ: P&R Publishing, 2005, 277..
[6] Anthony A. Hoekema, Created in God’s Image, Grand Rapids: Eerdman’s, 1986, 221.
[7] Ibid., 206-207.
[8] Poole, 121.
[9] Poole, 121.
[10] Poole, 16.
[11] Poole, 36.
[12] See Poole’s “Robot Manifesto” at the end of Chapter 9 – “Programming in Humanity.” The Manifesto alone is worth the price of the book. (Poole, 194 – 195)
[13] Poole, 180.
About the Author
Travis Vaughn
8 responses to “How to Code the Human Soul?”
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Oh man Travis, this is making my brain hurt.
It’s not quite a threshold concept as I’ve been reading stories of AI gone bad or gone good for as long as I’ve been reading. But the details of it all are quite eye opening and overwhelming.
Here is the question I came away with when reading Poole and then again reading your blog post: What if we program “most” of the junk code in but don’t get it ALL? Is it possible that the worst glitch that would set AI off is the unintentional absence of part of the soul that is vital but not graspable? In our desire to create AI in our image might we instead animate a monster we can’t stop?
Of course everyone from Mary Shelly to James Cameron has explored that trope, but reading Poole’s book didn’t provide any better assurance against that possibility.
I’m putting June 2025 on my calendar to listen to your podcast on this so I can learn more!!!
You ask some really good questions. Poole may be one the first (maybe THE first?) author / expert I’ve read/heard talking about the possibility of creating A.I. in our image. Not just at the general “made in the image of God” level, but at the specific emotional, mistake-prone, able to deal with uncertainty, and more level. The fact that she went in that direction, which really took an oblique root, in my opinion, from the typical narrative around how wonderful AI is or how destructive it will inevitably be…was intriguing. And really, I think she opened the door and made room for thinking about God and the intricacies of being made in God’s image in new ways, all while diving deep into AI’s possibilities.
IF season three of the podcast does happen, I would hope that June would be the month to start. I think that may depend on how much time I have in the spring (when we launched season two in June of 2022, we had begun recording episodes as early as Jan-Feb.) We’ll see! I’m really wondering if I want to change the entire format. Not time to wonder too long right now, though.
Travis,
The “how” would be quite amazing to explore. I must admit, I didn’t even know what junk code was before I read the book. I did think Poole’s approach might be a very masterful way of her having the reader truly think about their own humanity and their own soul. However, Poole’s description of the soul would cause much debate since she is right, there are so many varying thoughts on what constitutes the soul.
My question to you is, how do you explain what a soul is to a new congregant who has just come to faith?
Looking forward to the possible future podcast on the HOW of coding. Thank you for another well-written and thought-provoking post!
Travis,
I had a similar response, “Oh my gosh, what have we done.” Or more like “Oh gosh, what have I conformed to or inadvertently promoted through my purchases.” I enjoy the convenience of calling out “Hey Siri, call. . .” or “Hey Siri, get directions to. . .” In those instances, a person doesn’t think about the futuristic ramifications or developments. I like the convenience but maybe it’s time to create/revamp a personal theology of AI? It might be time to consider the long-term ramifications of the conveniences I choose to use?
Was it Poole or Ezekiel who wrote, “9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’”
Holy Spirit, come breathe into this AI might be a proper prayer one day.
I heard that Dr. Mario Hood was challenging his AI will moral questions and biblical scripture. I suppose this was an effort to start providing ChatGPT with another database to draw upon. Tim Clark posted that he wondered about the idea of programming a soul, since the question arises…a believers soul? an unbeliever soul? A Buddhist, Taoist, Satanic soul?
And on a side note: Genesis 11:6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
Not sure if that is a comfort or a curse.
Shalom…
I think it’s interesting and important that you highlight the “how” vs the “why” or the “is this even a good idea?” question. It seems important that we make this an interdisciplinary dialogue for the good of future humanity. Maybe I’m having a hard time breaking out of an old mindset of thinking about AI through a science-fiction lens, but I’m not convinced that AI programmed with souls would be a good thing. As you said, let’s consult the theologians in addition to the coders (and why not the artists, the psychologists, the doctors, and more…)
The junk code metaphor is hard for me. I think I get what Poole is saying but for some reason, it is just off for me.
That said, when she talked about how we treat and program AI (or created things) says more about us as humans than it does about the creation, she got me thinking! How we treat others, how we treat our kids, our animals, our congregations, our loved ones, our neighbors….our enemies…says more about us than it says about them.
What kind of humans do we want to be? I hope it is the kind of humans who treat each other with kindness and dignity and who program AI to do the same.
Hey Sir Travis, I remember talking with you in South Africa and you mentioned that it is not your goal to change the world. After reading your posts for over a year, I’m wondering how the Lord will humbly use your intelligence, podcasts, authenticity, and leadership to actually impact people/ministries locally and globally? You may already know the answer to that question. If so, I would love to know it.
As always your post is brilliant. I love the way you process what you read and your critical thinking is so in-tune with what is going on in the culture. With this in mind, how possible do you think it is to program our junk code into AI and yet eventually have AI go astray with our junk code and the result is emotional chaos? I’m not sure, if I am communicating that properly. Therefore, it might be a question to ponder instead of reply to. Once again, thank you for your insight!